Equal Amp Power

janmike
janmike Posts: 6,146
edited July 2005 in Electronics
I am looking to add another amp to my system and wanted to know if maintaining equal power throughout the entire system is all that important. I current have a Rotel 1080 driving my front speakers (200w X 2) and a Yamaha RX-V1500 (120W X 7) driving the remaining 5 speakers. In the HT theatre environment, is it imperative that I maintain equal power providing the speakers can handle the power. The 2 amps I am looking at are the Rotel 1075 (120W X 5) and the Rotel 1095 (200W X 5). Thanks folks.
Michael ;)
In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
NORTH of 60°
Post edited by janmike on
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited July 2005
    No. Just keep the higher powered amp on the fronts. A less expensive alternative is to get a monoblock for the center channel and let the receiver continue to power the remaining speakers.

    The 5-channel amp option is cool, but you'll have to weigh the minor differences you'll gain with the cost. If you decide to pursue it, go with the 1095 or buy the most power you can afford.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    janmike, I just went through the same dilemna. I came to the conclusion that adding another SS amp wouldn't do anything to improve on the sound. I posted a similar question here & I got a lot of great advice. I was steered into the direction of getting a tube amp, which I had never even considered. Let me tell you, it was the best advice I got. I bought a modified Jolida 502B integrated amp from Wally at Underwoodhifi.com. Now I let my NAD T773 receiver run the surrounds & the center. The Jolida opened everything up like you wouldn't believe. Now my HT & 2 channel are superb. You could let the Rotel 1080 run the rears, let the Yammie handle the center & surrounds. Now if you pick up a tube amp for the mains your rig will really sing. Check into it. Also the Jolida is in the same price range if not cheaper than getting another SS (STERILE SOUND)amp.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited July 2005
    pearsall001
    Thanks for the info. I guess I should have looked at a 5 channel amp to begin with instead of a 2 channel amp. I could have used the amp to pwr all the speakers and then use the tube to pwr the mains. Interesting idea. My reasoning was to take some of the load of the Yammie, increase the life of the receiver while improving the sound for stereo. I wonder how much better the tube would make the RTi100's sound.
    The long term plan was to purchase a tube amp and MUCH better speakers for stereo. You have me thinking.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    janmike,
    So I got ya thinking huh? If you do go w/ a tube amp for the mains you will notice a difference w/ the yammie because it's now only driving 3 speakers instead of 5. Your mains will sound excellent driven by tubes. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Isn't this hobby great along w/ being confusing as hell?
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited July 2005
    He already has a seperate amp driving the fronts, so there will be no difference to the Yamaha.

    Whether or not a tube amp will improve the sound of his front speakers, will depend on whether or not he likes the "tube" sound. Personally, I've never been able to stand it, and I don't understand why they are suddenly popular again. But to each his own...
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited July 2005
    My wife can attest to that. Oh well, we all need an outlet. My question is how much better can I make the RTi100's sound with a tube amp over a SS amp? I could see the addition of a tube amp would lead to the replacement of speakers.

    Front - RTi100's
    Centre - CSi5
    Rear - RTi6's
    Surround - RTi38's
    Yamaha RX-V1500
    Rotel RB-1080

    The other option would be to rid the system of the Rotel, purchase a 5 CH SS amp and a Tube Amp for the Main.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2005
    Janmike, alot of us are in the same boat as you! I wish I had gotten a 5 channel amp from the get go.

    As far as all this tube stuff, I tend to agree with WilliamM2. Right now it seems like half the people on this board are tube crazy & trying to get everyone else on the bandwagon.

    For me personally, tubes have too much of a maintenance factor for me to be bothered with. Also, they might make your system sound different, but not necessarily better.

    If you like the sound of your system now, why mess with it? Get yourself a 5 channel SS amp & continue to enjoy!

    Cathy
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2005
    Just get a SS amp for that application. Don't jump on the bandwagon because it sucks.

    Just as a side note, I haven't replaced a bad tube in 2 years. I also wouldn't use a tube amp for my 2CH rig and I own tube monoblocks and a stereo tube amp.

    SS power - Tube brain....ALL F'N DAY
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited July 2005
    Doro's right. Go solid state for HT. Save the tube amp idea for a separate rig.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    janmike,
    Now you're heading in the right direction. Sounds like a good plan to sell off the rotel, pickup a 5 channel amp & drive the main's w/ tube power. I know you will be very happy. One thing I can't figure out is why guys are saying to leave the tube gear for 2 channel & go SS for HT. Are they saying that tubes will sound too good for HT? Don't you want to be like Emeril & kick it up a notch? BAM. Good sound is good sound - PERIOD - whether it's in HT or 2 channel. Tubes blend in great w/ HT. Only one way to find out, go & listen for yourself & then decide. I absolutely love the sound of my tube power for both HT & 2 channel. PS - even the wife noticed the difference & is liking it.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited July 2005
    My initial objective when building this system was to have the HT and 2 CH all together. I have that. When I plug a CD into the Marantz, I listen to 2 CH stereo powered by the Rotel 1080 and through the RTi100's only. It sounds good. When I watch movies, all 7 speakers are on. Sound good. My only objective was to improve the sound quality on the HT by driving it all with a sep. amp. One I wanted the functionality of the AVR and two I wanted the performance and quality of separate power. So far I am in line with that.

    I do not know how much better I can make my 2 CH sound with the existing speakers. Kick it up a notch, you bet. Proac speakers (and not the little ones for $1200) powered by a high end amp (sep. or tube) and a quality CPD. Now that's what I call BAM! That is a $10K+ investment.

    The prime objective for searching out an additional amp was to:
    1) Increase the performance of quality of the HT
    2) Increase the life of the AVR by decreasing the load.

    One thing I love about this place is the amount of excellent advice you receive. All the opinions are respected and should be. To each his own. You folks are great.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited July 2005
    pearsall001 Glad to hear the tube amp worked out for your mains. I have been real happy with my setup & have no complaints. Post a review on your original post as a follow up.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited July 2005
    There are several reasons for using high quality SS amps for HT instead of tube amps:

    1) POWER! POWER! POWER!
    It's one of the two main reasons for using separate amplification for HT in the first place.

    2) If you run your mains off a tube amp while watching HT, the SQ in your center channel is not going to match the fronts. Not cool since the center channel handles most of the work.

    3) By using a tube amp in most HT setups, you're not really taking advantage of the full benefits that a tube amp can offer, even while listening to music in 2-channel mode. That's kinda like drinking a glass of fine wine with a KFC 3-piece combo meal. Save the tube amp for higher quality speakers, components and cables.

    4) Cost. A decent high powered tube amp could cost twice as much as a SS amp on the used market. You can get a used SS 200 wpc amp for $400, but forget about finding a 50 watt (or higher) tube amp for anywhere near that price. If buying new, the cost is not warranted, IMO.


    If you want the tube sound in 2-channel mode, consider getting a tube preamp.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    Early B,
    I take it that you didn't read some of my other posts. I am currently running an integrated tube amp for the mains along w/ a NAD T773 receiver. This set up works absolutely perfect. This way I get the best of both worlds. For HT I simply set the int amp to AUX. set the volume control at 3:00 & now the NAD runs the system. And by the way by only having to power 3 speakers the NAD really shines. It was by no means a slouch to begin with, only now it even sounds better. For 2 channel I simply set the int. amp to CD, load my music in the CDP & turn up the volumn, it couldn't be any easier than that. The receiver is now totally out of the picture. As far as tube power running the mains & throwing off the center channel I can only say that on my system that is definetly not the case at all. Are you saying that from experience or simply going by what others say? Sounds a little far fetched to me. Do you currently have or have owned a int. tube amp where you are speaking from your own personal experience? My system has gotten a whole lot better with the addition of the int. tube amp. As far as power goes, unless you move up to a mega buck amp (BAT, KRELL, CLASSE, ML, etc.) the sound from other amps in the low to mid price range pretty much sound a like IMO. I just didn't want to spend money & not hear anything different. I am just so pleased w/ what the int. tube amp has added to the whole listening experience. Remember years ago when the wine snobs declared that you can't drink red wine w/ fish, or that you can't drink white wine w/ steak. Nowadays we drink whatever the hell we want with any dish & it works out just fine. It looks to me like we look at tubes & SS in the same vain way. Hell just do what you want as long as it sounds good to you. Afterall it's all about the SOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    janmike,
    I had a pair of Proac Studio 100's that I bought back in 1988. They were by far the best sounding speakers that I have heard.
    About 2 yrs ago they just lost their umph. I had them looked at but to no avail. Another pair will hopefully be in the picture not too far down the road. If you want to really add some quality sound to your HT & you want to stay w/ SS you pretty much have to start looking at some high end gear. Stuff like Rotel, Outlaw, B&k, Anthem, Sherbourn, Adcom, etc. are all very good in their own respect but will not get you to sonic bliss if that is what you're looking to do. They all will play loud & clear but in the end pretty much all sound the same IMO. Moving up the ladder to the likes of BAT, ML, Classe, Cary, CJ, Jeff Rowland, Moon etc. now they will absolutety blow you away. However the only downside is the PRICE!!!!! Your quest continues, have fun.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    ezc,
    I did post back after I received the Jolida. It's under - I just died & found myself in TUBE heaven in electronics forum. Thanks for all you info you gave me, I think it's what really helped me to make my decision.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2005
    Tubes are great, but get some more gear under your belt before trying to convert everyone.

    You're beginning to sound like those Jolida folks, no offense to either.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited July 2005
    Not trying to convert anyone. Just letting folks know that there is life after SS. If it wasn't for the great info I got from these forums I probably would have never even considered making the move to tubes. It's a shame because every place we seem to shop for our HI-FI needs they only carry SS & we never get the oppurtunity to listen to tubes. I think companies like Jolida, PrimaLuna, etc. are filling that void nicely at very reasonable prices that allow us to even consider making a change. All we ask for is options within our budget. Bottom line is to have FUN!!! putting a system together
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited July 2005
    If I had the means, I would get a Parasound 5 ch amp for HT and call it a day..

    As it is, I have 4 Rotel 980`s, and the Denon doin it now...

    As far as tubes...Doro`s right (as usuall)!
    SS heart / tube Brain....
    Oh, and let us not forget MIT I/C`s (Imo)

    IMO , when it comes to CDP`s, F1`s advise was right on the money...
    Jolida,Ah!, etc...
    Tubes baby !

    just my.02... fwiw.. (which ain`t much !)
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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