Marantz SR8500

BSmart

Help. I recently bought a Marantz SR8500 to "upgrade" from my HK AVR500. I had read good things about this receiver and thought it was time to get a little more power, A/B switching, etc. Well, I am very underwhelmed with the performance of the unit in 2 channel stereo from a bass perspective. I have RT200P main speakers and have tried wiring them with the jumper plate in (like I had it with the HK) and then separately wiring without the jumpers using a sub cable from the pre-out and still the bass is incredibly weak. I had the dealer out to listen and he claims the bass is now "natural" and not boomy like my HK. I can crank the bass up from the remote control and there is very little effect at all. I am really disappointed that a $500 receiver would so out perform this $1500 model. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be happening? Thank you!!!

WilliamM2

If you think there is something wrong with it, take it to the dealer, and have him compare it to another identical unit. If he is unwilling to do this, get a refund, and find another dealer.

marker

Do you have mains set to large, and subwoofer set to off or no so that there is no double filtering of the bass signal between the AVR's sub output crossover and the RT2000i's own fixed internal crossover?

Airplay355

Use the OSD menu to check out the settings. If you are using the sub out with RCA cables you want the subwoofer set to on and the mains set to small. If you are using the speaker wire inputs you want the mains set to large and the sub set to off.

marker

Airplay, if sub is set to on, there WILL be double filtering.

BSmart, it's best to just use either speaker wire connections for the woofers, or pre-out, not sub out (unless the AVR's crossover can be defeated) for the woofers.

Airplay355

Marker is right. I just checked the manual and the best way is to set the subwoofer to off on your receiver and take two single RCA cables and run one from the left preout to the left main and the right preout to the right main. You might want to check the sub volume on the back of the subs. They could be turned off, or the volume knob could have accidently been turned down. I did this a few times with my Rti100's and thought I had blown something.

marker

Yeah, the one downside to this is that it would be nice to be able to adjust the sub output from the receiver's remote, and you can't do it with the best two hook up options.

As Airplay pointed out, you have to physically do it from behind the speaker. I fell that 10:30 to 11:00 position sounds best in my room for the RT2000i on music.

BSmart

Hey thank you guys for the advice. I'm sorry there has been a delay in responding (internet troubles with Qwest, ugh). Anyway, what I have done is set the main fronts to large, just used heavey gauge speaker wire to the top terminals of the RT200p's and kept the jumpers in. I have the sub set to "off'. So, the settings are identical to the way I had wired the HK receiver. I tried doing the pre-out from the Marantz and taking it from one sub to the next with a sub cable (took out the jumpers) and set the sub to "on". Again, the effects are decent for DVD, etc. but that still left me with very wimpy bass during CD playback in 2-channel as I prefer to listen. One thing the dealer could not explain was why the subs played when I had my B speakers (Atriums) on and the A speaker off. I had never seen that before. This guy wants to sell me a Rel sub for $1200 to take care of everything. I don't think I should have to buy it when the 200o's sounded so good before. I will try some of your other suggestions.

Thank you!!!!!

Airplay355

If you set the sub to on, and leave the mains at large and then use the subwoofer hookup to give signal to the 2000p woofers you are losing alot of bass because a full range signal is being sent to the top portion of the rt2000p. If you are using the subwoofer out set the mains to small, if you are using preouts set the mains to large. if you use speaker wire, set the mains to large.

bass ir coming from them when you turn off the a speakers because you have them hooked to the subwoofer output.

try using preouts instead. run one rca cable from the left main preout to the in on the left main speaker, and do the same for the right. make sure the mains are set to large and subwoofer is set to off.

P.HUNT

I demo'd this unit and I was not impressed either!
I felt it could not hold a candle to denon or yahama!

danger boy

I have used a Marantz SR5000 for several years now. i have to say.. the bass is "slightly" weak.. hardly enough to replace it. I think your dealer could be right.. your other receiver might have had the bass pumped up.

Set your bass and treble to 0, stright up and down.. to flat response. and see what kind of bass you get. Some people just like more bass than others.

I doubt that Marantz would build a receiver with weak bass. Esp with this receiver being an upgrade over the SR7500. I do however notice that some Marantz receivers seem to be underpowered. THat's why i use external amps. With your 8500 having 125wpc, that should be plenty to drive most any speakers pretty loud.

I'm able to adjust the volume of my sub from my remote. Sounds like your's doesn't work that way. Interesting.

If i were you.. i'll play around with settings some more. but if you're not happy with it.. don't settle. Take it back and get the Denon or other brand.

ND13

I've been following this thread for a while and something just doesn't seem right. I think he should start over and reconnect everything using the simplest technique. It just seems, to me, that wires are either getting crossed somewhere, or his settings aren't correct or both.

Listen to these guy's recommendations on settings and wiring techniques before doing something rash. I have to agree with Danger Boy, in that Marantz wouldn't sell a receiver, that is supposed to be an upgrade, that's that weak in the bass dept.

BSmart

To the dealer's credit, he spent over 2 hours trying out several things in terms of wiring, adjusting the control on the back of the speakers, etc. He then played a demo disk they use to set up theaters, etc. and did admit the bass wasn't "what he would expect". Of course, I tried to get him to trade it in (they are a very small dealer in Denver) and he balked. He said anything else they carry would sound similar. From that standpoint, I am not a happy camper.

Let me ask some basics. I have double and triple checked to make sure I did not cross-phase the wiring. Should I try (again) going from the pre-out of the 8500 to the left speaker line level in, then head from the line level out to the right speaker? Can I use a Y out of the pre-amp and just go into each speaker line level? Or, stay the course with the simple speaker wire in. Next, I am really confused now about large v small. What I had not tried was direct wiring the subs (removing jumpers) and setting the speaker to small. Maybe that was my problem. Oh, and the 8500 can adjust the sub level from the unit, I forgot to mention that.

I so much appreciate all of your help.

2+2

I did notice that on my 8400, if you hit the S-direct button, the subwoofer preout turns off. You have to have it in CD analog mode to get subwoofer ouput....Admittedly, I have not played with the unit much as I just use it for 2ch music...

danger boy

Originally posted by BSmart
Should I try (again) going from the pre-out of the 8500 to the left speaker line level in, then head from the line level out to the right speaker?

Did i miss something here? I'm not sure you can use your pre outs to a speaker connection... unless it's powered. this might be your case.. i'm not real familiar with your speaker set up.

Pre outs usually go to an external amp. from the amp to the speaker.

try hooking your speakers directly to the Marantz 8500. see what results you get. by pass the preouts for now.

Airplay355

danger,
the rt2000p's have amps in them, so you can use the preouts to give the amps a signal. left preout to left main and right preout to right main, or you can daisy chain them by going sub out to left main and left main to right main (or right to left, whatever). you can also wire them with regular speaker wire connections. i think he just has settings confusde. the bass management on marantz isnt too complicated but the powered towers complicate things somewhat.

I just thought of this. To figure out if it's your settings, hook up your speakers with speaker wire connection only and hit the source direct button. That will bypass the bass management and send a full range signal to the speakers. If your bass is back then it's your settings, if it isn't then try turning up the amp on the back of the speakers.

danger boy

Originally posted by Airplay355
I just thought of this. To figure out if it's your settings, hook up your speakers with speaker wire connection only and hit the source direct button. That will bypass the bass management and send a full range signal to the speakers. If your bass is back then it's your settings, if it isn't then try turning up the amp on the back of the speakers.

i like this idea the best. for now i'd hook up the speakers only using regular speaker wire and connections. once those are set and working. then figure out the powered subs. with those speakers.. it should really kick azz.

marker

Keep it as simple as possible, just hook up the subs via speaker wire at their binding posts.

For one thing it less susceptibale to hum anyway than cables, and besides, since the speaker's own internal crossover CAN'T be defeated or turned off, then you must NOT use the AVR's crossover at any point or there WILL be nasty double filtering going on, so there is NO benefit to using cables for the subs in the first place.

Set mains to large, sub to off or no, and you are set! I guarantee you this will work right.

BSmart

Okay, as my Daddy once told me, "Son you were born with the last name Smart, apparently you haven't had to earn it..."

I have them wired "standard" (not using pre-outs, etc.) so that the jumpers are in and the bass should be managed with the knob on the back of the speakers. Mains, etc. set to Large. With my last receiver, I would have the knob at about 11:00 and got tons of bass for music and nice booms for movies. For this Marantz, I have tried setting the knob to say 1:00 or above to see if that helps with the bass for music. Very little, I would say, plus that makes me nervous for playing a movie such as U571, etc. Again, when I tried "un-jumping" terminals and going from the sub pre-out with cable to the line level ins, the effect was negligible in terms of music bass.

Here is what puzzles me: I have some modest outdoor Polk Atriums hooked to this Marantz for my deck. If I crank up the bass on the receiver using the remote (you can set from 0 to 6) there is a VERY noticable increase in those outdoor speakers. In fact, they sound best at maybe 0 or +1 on the bass adjustment from the receiver. So, I know the Marantz is capable of putting out plenty of bass, but it just doesn't seem to want to direct it to the bass speakers on the 2000's.

I was intrigued about using the pre-outs for the mains. Any other opinions on this? Heck, I am willing to try anything at this point!! Thank you!!!!!

marker

OK, the fact that when you crank up the bass for the Atriums from the remote means that your sub is set to on. That is, unless you are talking about the regular bass/treble tone controls.

Make sure subwoofer output is set ot off or no from your AVR's set-up menu, then report back.

BSmart

The Sub is set to OFF. What I meant is that the only way to adjust the bass and treble is by using the remote (which, while I'm at it, is really cheap for the price of this unit). Sorry for the confusion.

Oh, and one more thing that I have no clue will help: when I play an SACD through my DVD player, the sound is incredible. Dark Side in SACD is nearly mind-blowing - no bass wimpiness there, that's for sure. Yellow Brick Road sounds very nice as well (yeah, I know that covers an odd spectrum musically speaking).

Thanks

marker

Yeah, I kinda thought you meant the bass tone control and not the sub output since you were talking about the Atriums, but now that it is confirmed for sure that subs are hooked up by speaker wire, on the AVR the sub is set to off, and mains to large, I'm at a loss.

Something must be wrong. Good luck.

Edit- stupid question I know, but I'm grabbing at straws here. Sub amps are plugged into an AC outlet aren't they?

Airplay355

Did you try using the source direct button yet? That will defeat all settings so it doesn't matter if anything is wrong. Jumpers in place, speaker wire connection, source direct button on. No crossover or volume to mess with. Try this and if it doesn't work then I don't know what to tell ya. I had a Marantz sr7200 and I never had problems with the bass. Good luck. Yea make sure your sub amps are on, theres a little on and off switch

marker

^ What he said! I have the Marantz SR-8400, and have had no such problems.

Just to make sure the sub amps are getting power, is the green light under the Polk logo on each speaker on? Short of that, I don't know what else to tell you at this point

BSmart

The subs are most definitely on - green light on front, plugged in, etc. I will try to mess around with the direct source button as well. I think when it is all said and done, I will just have to get used to the less-bass than the older AVR. Movies, SACD, etc. sound terrific, so I will just get used to my 2-channel music.

I think that maybe some speakers are just a better fit for some receivers. I know this sounds very simplistic, but based on what I have been experiencing for the past 2-3 months, it would appear to be the case.

Again, thank you all for your input!!!

Airplay355

Alrighty, good luck.

marker

Maybe it really is just the Marantz receiver itself. Check out what I've found copied and pasted here:

While I’m on the topic of bass performance, I’d like to talk about the sub-woofer hook-up options of the RT3000 with regard to a Dolby Digital system. You have several options. First option is the old fashioned way: to use speaker leads to the front right and left speakers. You set your processor to "large" speakers and turn the LFE output on your processor to "off." This will direct the bass from both right and left channels to the speakers woofer sections as well as anything that would have been destined for the LFE sub-woofer.

The second option is to use your speaker wires to feed the top portion of the speakers only (set processor to "small"), and disconnect the upper modules of the RT3000p’s from the sub-woofer sections. Now you feed the sub-woofers in one of two ways. You can "daisy chain" the subs from the LFE output on your processor. You wire one sub to the processor, then wire the second sub-woofer to the first sub-woofer via a long RCA interconnect cable or you can use two interconnects, each from the LFE output on the processor directly to the sub-woofer sections using a "Y" connector, if need be. Another alternative, and this is what I did, is to run a long interconnect around one side of the room to the left speaker. I terminated that interconnect with a "Y" adapter and used one short interconnect to the left speaker and a longer one across the front wall to the right speaker. I found this last method to sound better than using the daisy chain but I didn’t find it to be the best method in all cases.

While I had the RT5000 system, I made several changes to the audio portion of my video system. I used a pre-amp/processor for a while, then switched to a receiver, then to another receiver, then settled on a processor/integrated amp (Yamaha DSP-A1). With all of this shuffling around of equipment, I noticed that things changed as I changed units. The same set-ups on the speakers didn’t give me the same results with different machines. Specifically, I found that the level of output from the LFE channel relative to the output from the speaker outputs changed. With one receiver, I had to crank up the volume on the Polk’s sub-woofers almost to their maximum just to get the same results. With my original processor, I was sure that using the LFE outputs to the bass modules of the RT3000s was the best sounding way to go. With two of the receivers, I felt running them full range from a speaker level input was the best way to go. As I received the DSP-A1 late in the review process, I settled on using the speaker level feeds and didn’t experiment any further.

The moral of my little story is that things are not as standardized among makers of electronics as we would like and I highly suggest that you try both methods and see what sounds/works best for you. Certainly connecting up with only speaker wires worked very well in all cases and was the easiest way to get the job done.

BSmart

Well, since I have had some time to work on this I have tried just about every hook up method possible. And, as has been suggested, some of the methods bring better results for say watching movies vs listening to music. The differences seem somewhat subtle to me in that none of them suddenly made me say, "That's it!" with good old plain 2-channel stereo listening to a CD. Now of course I am in the mode of being probably too critical when I listen to the unit. Since I expect a better bass punch and don't "hear" it, I feel a little cheated at having spent the extra cash while I could have saved some dough and gotten better sound from a lower-priced receiver. This is where I may have made a mistake in getting the jones for a new receiver with more power and plenty of neat features. At the end of the day, do I need 15 surround modes and DVI switching? Probably not as I watch movies in DTS, Dolby Digital, etc and have rarely bothered with SRS, etc. And, I listen to tunes more than anything by far and needless to say that is stereo.

My next plan is to work on the wife for the next several months to grab a killer subwoofer to help kick up the bass and (hopefully) make me a happy boy again. That may take a lotta foot rubs...

Dennis Gardner

Take it back and upgrade to the HK 7300. You know you can't go wrong with it.

Airplay355

Yea, if you aren't happy take it back

ND13

Dennis Gardner wrote:

Take it back and upgrade to the HK 7300. You know you can't go wrong with it.

Yeah, and Fry's has them for $1299 right now, which, from what I can gather, is a tremendous deal. Check that price against J&R, since J&R ships HK products for free.

$1343 at J&R including shipping. MSRP is $2199