DIY SUB worth it?

Schris22

I want to build a sub for my dad's upcoming HT system.

I'm going to use the rocket by Onix series...

point is he has a medium sized room that opens up to hallways of the kitchen and front door open area...

I was thinking 400-500 dollars for a DIY sub would give me something really deep and able to fill the room for HT.


He thinks thats too much so I thought a 12 inch would do then possiably the titanic from dayton or the quatro. I was also looking into the other recommended names, shiva, adire, and tempest were the ones off the top of my head.

But then comparing this to SVS Pb10-ISD I wasn't sure if I could match i t for the price.

I see most that build their own subs have huge enclosures and budgets above 400.

Just wondering is it worth it for sub 400?

and any driver recommendations for my budget.

I also got a woodworker friend to help me do all the cutting and assembly. Though I wanted to go with sealed for simplicity's sake and lack of skills, with his help I think I'll try a ported box....


Questions welcome...


Thanks,

Chris

Mjr7531

I DIY often, and while I may not be the most knowledgable on the subject than others, I do know that SVS has put some serious time and effort into that little sub. I've talked to guys at the production plant and they've put thousands of hours into that sub. It'd be hard for any of us to do that

However, if you do choose to DIY, I'd throw Ascendant Audio onto your list to consider, their blowout sale right now is unbeatable.

Before I were to place a solid stance on either side, I'd have to ask, how flexible is that $400?

Schris22

400 dollars isn't too flexible thats teh max.

I called but not sure if they have any more of those drivers left. Hopefully they do, trying to get the atlas 12 or 15. only 5 dollars more but I still think the 12 will be the route for size and amp cost.

Chris

RuSsMaN

I've got a great sub you can come pick up for $400, and be DONE with it.

Schris22

hah from where?

what is it?

I could use any guidence with sub building...about to hit cabinent building in speaker cookbook by mr...VD

I already got a good woodworker that is helping out

Chris

Schris22

edit....in another post by accident...some of the stuff at diysubwoofers.org is broken....lots of broken links. some are still helpful.



Chris

RuSsMaN

Just north of Dallas, it's a big Signet 15" with remote - but if you're set on the DIY thing go for it.

Cheers,
Russ

michael_w

If you can get in on the Ascendant blow out you could make a very decent sub with one of the atlas's. I made a 6.5 cubic foot box using two 4" ports for an atlas 15 and it sounds quite nice, but maybe the used market would be a good alternative to diy.

Schris22

do you have instructions are plans for that sub?

I'm looking into the atlas I called but no one was there hopefully I'll get a response today...

Chris

michael_w

I don't really have instructions on making the box but I did base it on someone elses work.

Here is the drawing I drew out on autocad for mine. It is downfiring and doesn't include the legs in the picture. ~ link ~

This is what mine was based on. ~ another link ~ Keep in mind that this thing is huge so if space is an issue you might want to go sealed. Mine weighs probably about 100 to 120 lbs and sits on casters. I used a Sub 250RF plate amp from Creative Sound Solutions that puts out 360 watts into 4 ohms (250 into 8). Total cost was I think around $500 cdn.

There are a couple threads about my diy sub as well as some others like early b's and some sono-tube subs that also utilize an atlas 15. Do a search around here and start reading Feel free to pm me with questions or ask the vr3mx guy (sid is a diy nut).

Schris22

Just stubeled on this deal


http://www.electronicsoutfitter.com/store/295-400.html

trying to find out if the atlas are still available though...


Chris

tryrrthg

I doubt there are any Ascendant subs left. I got one of the last Atlas 15's and that was almost 2 months ago.

Get yourself an AV 12 or AV15 . They are some of the best bang for your buck drivers out there. Get a 250-300 watt plate amp for $150 or so and you should easily be able to make an MDF cabinet for less than $100 to fit your budget.

Schris22

Hmm seems reasonably possiable in that budget. I love the look of that sub, Still pondering that 80 dollar titanic from dayton half the price. If i can find out if it's a reputable store then I'll buy it tomorrow.

Chris

tryrrthg

The AV drivers will be a much better sub for the money over the Titanic. The AV12 has been closely compared to SVS PC+ drivers (the db2 drivers).

WilliamM2

That Dayton driver is a very old version, they are up to the MKIII version now, looks nothing like that.

As an aside, I tried one of the Dayton subwoofer kits a few weeks ago, I was very UNimpressed. They calim it will hit 110db, it was bottoming out long before reaching 100db. it also had that one note quality, not musical at all. It may be better with your own cabinet design though.

Schris22

oh thanks for the heads up.

I'm thinking about building a smaller sub for my computer set up first so that if I mess up the material cost won't be as high....will do maybe an 8 inch sealed...possiably a 8 inch quatro from dayton.


These will be matched with the r15's.

Though dependent on time (want to get it done before school) I'll probably have to do my dad's sub first (sigh)


thanks,


Chris

Early B.

With a $400 budget and a medium sized room, buy yourself a new or used PB10 or Hsu STF-2 sub on ebay or audiogon and you won't have to fool around with DIY. This advice is coming from someone with an awesome DIY sub. It's great, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to everyone. It's not hard to do, but the biggest downside is that I really can't sell it for anything close to its value. Plus, if you want maximum authority from your DIY sub, it's gotta be a very big box OR you gotta drop more cash into it.

Schris22

Still debating sealed or not with the AV12.

Would like to do ported... The sub will sit in a corner...sorta...I don't know the dimensions but will estimate it will be along a wall and the other corner is more of a half wall that goes 4-5 ft. Not sure how this is going to affect preformance but I'm pretty sure I just make sure the ports can breathe than it should be fine....the sub has prelaid wiring for it soooo pretty sure my dad doesn't want it much further from that corner.


I'm trying to get the parts I need soon, because I have a coupon at Home depot....

Stuff from Home depot:
1. Gorilla Glue
2. PVC cleaner and glue
3. Plywood - For bracing?
4. 3/4? or 1 inch MDF
5. Primer for paint


Parts Express:
1. 5 - ACOUSTIC FOAM 2-1/2" 24"x18" UL94

2. DAYTON BLACK SPEAKER SPIKES 4 PC SET

3.SPEAKER GASKETING TAPE 1/8" x 1/2" x 50'

4. Still looking into which amp as well 240 plate w/o bass boost was recommended so might go with that one.


I have a few questions before i get to work about assembly but i have to leave work soon. I'll do a quick versionand explain later...

1. basically, Cut holes/MDF.
2. Glue bracing.
3. Dry Fit everything
4. Glue bracing to mdf
5. Glue everything together
6. Apply Foam
7. Run wires to amp
8 mount driver...

1.This basically it? What type of foam do I use...the one I got was ok? I'm basing this off the atlas 15 link I got earlier but will run it through a program to see what dimensions it should be...

2. does software account for space taken by driver and amp? or is this not important.


Chris

Schris22

I'll also look into the Pb10 some more. If properly constructed how will the AV12 in a ported enclosure compare to the PB10. PB10 will come to about 470 with UPS Ground.

Thanks for the advice early b. I really want to get into DIy but you might be right about this one....

Chris

tryrrthg

Originally posted by Schris22
I'll also look into the Pb10 some more. If properly constructed how will the AV12 in a ported enclosure compare to the PB10. PB10 will come to about 470 with UPS Ground.

Properly constructed I would think the AV12 would compete with the SVS PC+ line of subs. The AV series are serious woofers.

What size enclsure are you looking to build? what tune are you shooting for? Port size?

I remember a while back I played around with the AV12 in winISD and it looked good in a 140'ish liter cabinet tuned to 18 or 19hz. but that was the first series of drivers, things may have changed.

if you're going to be using 3" or 4" PVC pipes for ports, I would HIGHLY recomend you buy some
flared ports from parts express instead. You'll need the extra flare to keep port noise to a minimum with a driver like the AV series

I love DIY'ing and I don't know that I'd ever buy a subwoofer again, I have a lot of fun doing it myself.

Schris22

I was definatly looking at those flared ports I think...might have been mixed up.

I think I got room to work with the space between the wall/couch/corner will give me 3-4 ft wide, 4 feet deep and something not too hideiously high....

I think thats plenty for a ported sub.

Tune for most likely around 20.

Chris

tryrrthg

Yeah, you have plenty of room for a ported sub. Now you just have to plug the driver's TS parameters into winISD or some other modeling program and decide on an enclosure size and tuning. You have to find a happy medium between enclosure size, cone excursion, port length/size (and air speed inside the port).

It's quite a fun process (slight sarcasm) But it's fun to play around with it.

michael_w

3/4" mdf through the box will work well as long as you have good internal bracing. Might as well use mdf for the braces.

Schris22

Hah messing with It now...sad part is I can 't remember what everything stands for...I read the chapters i believe 1 - 4 In the loudspeaker design cookbook. It helped me learn more about how speakers work, but not quite a lot into how to actually make one...though I just covered the low frequencey drivers...


Chris

Schris22

Ok finnaly "done" with messing around in WiniSd.


Looks like AV12 paired with a 380 watt rhytmik amp.

1 Port - 4'' flared 24'' long
It will be 4 cubic feet.


Ok...

anyone confirm my list up a few post?

I have a few questions...

PE only sells a 4'' flared kit for 17'' how do I make it 24?

How much dampning material should I put? Just get the 2 inch foam and adhere/staple to all open space inside?

is there anything wrong with making it narrower and deeper, instead of box?

This was from one of the guys that worked for Stryke "Something about 15" wide, 19.5" tall and 32.5" deep. Two layers 3/4" MDF on the front and single layer the rest of the way with bracing."

What kind of bracing should I use? corner or cross?

How many supports for the ports will I have, and I'm guessing the hole for this port will be the size of the driver and the port. How thick should this support be?

I would like to order everything from PE today in the afternoon or earlier if possiable. Thanks!

basically hope to imitate this design except with a different driver and one port instead of two
http://www.frontiernet.net/~trtinkerer/introduction.html

Thinking the feet from PE because I think casters would vibrate....

big issue was I thought you couldn't be off on the dimensions of a ported box. I was messing with winisd and seems you can get very close results. I cut a the box down to 3.5 cubic feet instead of 4...and it only dropped my tuning frequ (18) down 1db, and that was the biggest impact....I know it's a 1 db drop but I think .5 cubic feet is a big difference...oh well..maybe I did something wrong...

budget was firm at 400 but looks will be at 500....it's ok I guess I'll chip some in for my dad's intro to the audio world

Guys have been so freaking HELPFUL!!! Thanks a bunch...just keep it up =P


Chris


Mr. vr3mx hasn't chimed in...will PM this uber building guru...hah

VR3

You have PM(s)

* Going Back To Bed Sid

tryrrthg

I was just playing with the numbers and I have some plans from Adire Audio that were designed for the Shiva driver. They should work well for the AV12 too. It is a 142 liters with a full length 4" flared port (around 18" long) that should tune your AV12 to around 18-19 hz.

I'm pretty sure they recommend no stuffing/lining for the sub. I could email you the plans today sometime if you are interested. Just PM me or post your email address.

oh, forgot to mention about the port. You can't make it longer unless you can find some PVC or cardboard tube that will fit inside the flare. You pretty much have to design your sub around the length of the port. If I remember correctly your design should call for a 17" port but the entire flared port assembly will actually be 18" long.

here it is: "4. The Precision Port™ should be 1" longer than Lv when assembled. " from this page

tryrrthg

I found the plans online. If this doesn't work let me know and I'll send them to you.

Shiva Plans

You could go with the 95 or 142.5 liter plans depending on how low you really need it tuned.

Schris22

Thanks for all the input.

I saw the plans thanks.

I think i can still do 4 cubic feet and raise the tune to about 20.5 that puts the 4 inch port to just about 17....

Not sure how much difference the 1 hz change will bring...but I'm sure it'll be fine for HT.


I think almost everything is tied up now...

Just should I get those feet from PE? I don't think I'll get the casters after all. Is there another place to get feet?


Chris

VR3

1hz in a real room wont make any difference.

You will gain about 4-5-6hz in room with room gain regardless unless your room is just big.

VR3

To give you an idea...

my SVS is tuned to 22hz...

This is an old graph, my system has changed alot - need to make a new graph!

100hz = 85db
15hz = 81db