Best Buy - DVD on HD TV Demo - what happened?

kberg

I just went to Best Buy tonight and asked the sales guy to connect a DVD player to the new JVC LCoS 56" HD TV just released. I wanted to see what a DVD looked like on this set w/o being influenced by the great picture already being shown from the HD signal continuously being displayed on the set.

So, the guy hooks up a JVC player to the TV via component video and played some concert DVD. Now, I'm not sure whether the player was in progressive scan or interlaced mode, but it seemed that he had the cable connections right.

Well, the picture looked terrible. I figured SOMETHING had to have been wrong somewhere but don't know what it was. Assuming the connection was right and playback was in progressive scan, can anybody comment on how a component video connection to an HD TV such as this can look SO MUCH worse than my current interlaced S-Video connection to my 32" Toshiba CRT? Could it have been the player? Something else?

It just seems to me that, although I'm not expecting HD quality, a DVD in progressive scan mode with a component video connection on this particular HD TV should normally yield a pretty darn good picture, right? (At least as good as my current setup?)

PolkThug

A good ole fashioned CRT is superior.

TheReaper

Some of the picture degredation probably has something to do with resolution, size and distance. A DVD only has the resolution of a very good standard tv signal. The larger you stretch that image, the farther away you will have to be, to still have it look good.

bknauss

kberg.. couple questions:
-Was this JVCs new line of TVs, or last years? I see you say new line, but I haven't seen any JVC TVs in my BB in a long time or on the BB site. I had made the wild assumption BB dropped JVC.

-Had the TV been calibrated? Although CRT direct view is definitely the best picture out there, there shouldn't be such a difference between an s-video feed to a CRT and a component feed to a DILA... in fact, the DILA probably should look much better.

BrentMcGhee

well first off..... if you have been used to a crt for a while now a rptv will seem a little off definatley, like thereaper said you need to be alot further away from a rptv than a crt (how far were you?)

Also a crt is going to be alot brighter of an image than what you will get with a rptv.

But after all of that my money is on that most rptv have independant video adjustmants (brightness, contrast, sharpness, etc.) for different inputs. I bet the input that he plugged the dvd into had not been calibrated like the one for there hd feed was.

kberg

Originally posted by bknauss
kberg.. couple questions:
-Was this JVCs new line of TVs, or last years? I see you say new line, but I haven't seen any JVC TVs in my BB in a long time or on the BB site. I had made the wild assumption BB dropped JVC.

-Had the TV been calibrated? Although CRT direct view is definitely the best picture out there, there shouldn't be such a difference between an s-video feed to a CRT and a component feed to a DILA... in fact, the DILA probably should look much better.

This was JVC's newest DILA unit, the 56" HD-56G786. BB just received it within the past week (in fact, the guy was putting a new price tag of $3,099 on it while I was there).

Regarding calibration, I realize this is VERY important, but I can't confirm that this was done - probably not - these guys probably just play with the brightness controls!

Like I said, I'm not expecting HD signal picture quality, but certainly MUCH better than what I saw. I think what I need to do is go back, bring one of my DVD's into the store, verify all DVD component/connection types and settings, and see what is displayed.

The bottom line is that if DVD movies on this JVC set (or other big screen sets of different technologies) with component video inputs and progressive scan can't look at least reasonably close to my S-Video, interlaced settings on my 32" Toshiba CRT, my big screen purchase may be on hold for a while.

kberg

Originally posted by kberg
I think what I need to do is go back, bring one of my DVD's into the store, verify all DVD component/connection types and settings, and see what is displayed.

Well gang, I took my own advice and went to another BB store and had a sales guy hook up a DVD player to a 52" JVC HDILA. So, with progressive scan and a component video connection, along with popping in my LOTR, FOTR DVD, and what appeared to be the CORRECT CONNECTIONS BY THE SALES GUY, I have to say that, to my eyes, the DVD looked fantastic! And that is under the (probably safe) assumption that the set was not even calibrated via a Digital Video Essentials or S&V disk.

Looks like I may be pulling the trigger on a 52" or 56" JVC HDILA set, hopefully within the next couple of months!

Side note - After talking to the sales guy in depth about display technologies in general and specifics of the JVC set, he said I seemed to know a lot about what I was talking about (compared to his "typical" customer) - big surprise there! However, although I'll confess I still have a lot more to learn, I'll give him credit for him saying that I have done my homework.

Toxis

gotta love micro displays... Decent on HD, junk on everything else. Buy the TV and upgrade your DVD player to the Denon 5910. Problem solved.

kberg

Originally posted by Toxis
Buy the TV and upgrade your DVD player to the Denon 5910. Problem solved.

If you think I'm going to spend about $3,500 on a DVD player, you're NUTS!

Gaara

Kberg,

I can gaurantee what happened is that the sales associate in the first store grabbed a cheapie dvd player, used component video, and assumed it was going to be in progressive scan. Also the disc was probably of poor quality.

So a few questions for you:

1. Do you remember the brand of the dvd player?

2. Did the salesmen do anything to adjust the settings in the dvd player?

3. What was the disc they tried using?

I work in retail and have seen salesmen grab $40 dvd players, hook them up with component, not turn on progressive, and pop in copies of older discs that they like. I watched a salsmen do this with a 55in $7499 Hitachi plasma, needless to say the customer was not impressed.

When I do a demo I grab the same onkyo dvd player, with the same monster ultra component video cables, and always use spiderman on superbit. Every tv looks good with this combination.

If you really want to check out what this tv will look like, go back and talk to the second guy, and ask if you can bring in your own dvd player and disc. We used to do it all the time at cc, hell even bring your own cables. You could also bring along a calibration disc, calibrate the set using the on screen adjustments (salesmen don't like you going into service menus) and then go from there.

That way it will be a picture like you will have at home, with your dvd player, your cables, and a disc you are familiar with.

Jared

P.S. When I was demoing my Elite 47ai at Tweeter the salesmen let me use my own cables, and I took it out of their reference room to hook it up to my tv, which at the time was a 32in sony hs510. He also let me do a basic calibration with AVIA before we tested it out. Whole thing took around 2 hours.

kberg

Originally posted by Gaara
Kberg,

I can gaurantee what happened is that the sales associate in the first store grabbed a cheapie dvd player, used component video, and assumed it was going to be in progressive scan. Also the disc was probably of poor quality.

So a few questions for you:

1. Do you remember the brand of the dvd player?

Yep - a JVC player, and it looked like a cheapie, like you said and could very well have been in "interlaced" mode.

2. Did the salesmen do anything to adjust the settings in the dvd player?

Nope - not a bit, and a very good point your making here!

3. What was the disc they tried using?

Some kind of concert DVD. I asked for a (well known) movie, but he didn't come up with anything (a pretty sorry situation here, I know)

I work in retail and have seen salesmen grab $40 dvd players, hook them up with component, not turn on progressive, and pop in copies of older discs that they like. I watched a salsmen do this with a 55in $7499 Hitachi plasma, needless to say the customer was not impressed.

Yep, I can understand this happening a lot everywhere!

If you really want to check out what this tv will look like, go back and talk to the second guy, and ask if you can bring in your own dvd player and disc. We used to do it all the time at cc, hell even bring your own cables. You could also bring along a calibration disc, calibrate the set using the on screen adjustments (salesmen don't like you going into service menus) and then go from there.

That way it will be a picture like you will have at home, with your dvd player, your cables, and a disc you are familiar with.

I think this is the BEST advice one can give - that way, there will be no "scaling" or other concerns that might be an issue when "different" equipment is hooked up later, because the equipment won't be different! And, even if the picture is more than acceptable pre-calibration, that would be enough for me, since post-calibration would only make it better!

Thanks for the response!

Schris22

don't you have to take into account ambient light. Most likely the lighting in the store will be much much brighter than what you will see at home. This always increases glare and decreases picture quality at the store.

just a small point that doesn't make too much of a difference compared to a cheap dvd player and cables.

Chris

kberg

Originally posted by Schris22
don't you have to take into account ambient light. Most likely the lighting in the store will be much much brighter than what you will see at home. This always increases glare and decreases picture quality at the store.

Definitely - yet another good point. In fact, my understanding is that for many RP sets, especially the JVC HDILA set, some ambient light is actually beneficial, in that it can somewhat reduce the amount of "visible black" (actually a very dark grey which can more easily be seen in completely dark rooms) from any aspect ratios that show the black bars. Some of this may be able to be overcome by proper calibration, but probably not all of it.

Toxis

Originally posted by Gaara
When I do a demo I grab the same onkyo dvd player, with the same monster ultra component video cables, and always use spiderman on superbit. Every tv looks good with this combination.

you know that you could've used Monster Video 2 cables and received the same picture, right? I've done side by side comparisons and there's no visual difference (using 2m cables on a Pioneer plasma).