Cool tube finds for Dodd ELP/Jolida JD-100

dragon1952

I'm just a beginner but I have found some tubes recently that work really well in my system and am having alot of fun tube rolling.
I bought a pair of 6DJ8's labeled 'CBS' and 'Made in Germany'. From the sellers description and a little research on my part these are evidently very early 60's (61 maybe?) and were made for CBS by Siemens in Germany. I have these in my Dodd ELP, and even though the only other 6DJ8 types I've tried are the stock Jolidas, Ei Elites and NOS JAN Philips 6922s, they absolutely blow those away. Incredible detail but still silky smooth.
Some others I recently purchased are some 12AX7A's for my Jolida CDP. Labeled 'Baldwin' with yellow lettering these were pulled from a 1950's model Baldwin organ. From doing a little research these were evidently made by Raytheon for Baldwin and were made to very stringent standards and tolerances, gold pins, etc. You see these on Ebay quite often and, even used from the 50's and 60's, still test strong. These are very nice for lesser quality recordings and heavy rock I have found. A couple of recordings I found practically unlistenable with a tube combination that sounded awesome for my jazz and better recordings sounded excellent with these in the CDP. Specifically Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy and Megadeth's Countdown to Extinction. From my limited education in tubes so far I would think these would be a prime example of the traditional 'laid back' tube sound where the highs are rolled off a bit but strong in the mids and bass ranges.
I liked the Siemens so well I have contacted the buyer to see if he has anymore, no matter how many hours are left on them. I paid like $9 apiece for them and only around $5 apiece for the Baldwins so these were a very cool find as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, I know many members here have the ELP's and Jolidas so just wanted to share my experience so far.

dragon1952

Hey drag.....that's cool that you're having fun with the tubes. Those sound like great finds, for sure. I'll have to check those out!

:rolleyes:

dragon1952

Hey thanks, man! I figured nobody gave a **** for awhile there! Yeah, these tubes are the way to go. You can use different combinations for different kinds of music. With the solid state CDP you're stuck with the one sound. I demoed the Onix XCD-88 and it sounded great with the jazz and smoother stuff but was kind of nasty on the harder stuff.

F1nut

LOL.....

I like the Ei Elites best in the Jolida.

dragon1952

Originally posted by F1nut
LOL.....

I like the Ei Elites best in the Jolida.

Cool! I just ordered some of the regular Ei grey plates today. I think doro had recommended them and then I saw another guy on Audigon, who has quite the system, and a couple others say they were their favorite too. I tried the Ei Elite 6DJ8's in my Dodd and thought they were a tad laid back. These Siemens kick butt though. I just got another pair from the same dude. Still searching for the right ones for the Jolida though. So far I've tried some NOS 1963 GE long plates which are nice and the JJ Tesla ECC83S was pretty darn good too, as well as the Baldwins I mentioned before which are laid back but great for hard rock.

F1nut

The ones I like are the Ei 12AX7EG gold pins. I have heard good things about the grey plates also. Another bit of info that I've seen enough to believe it has merit is the Jolida doesn't like NOS tubes. I've only tried one pair of NOS and I didn't like them at all.

organ

Very cool. Do you find that 6DJ8 are warmer and smoother but have less dynamics than a 6922? I haven't played around with enough 6DJ8 but this seems to be the case with the tubes I've used.

I try to stay away from the NOS stuff. I'm afraid to get too attached to a certain brand and can't find a replacement in the future. I'm using current prodction 6922 right now. Have you tried the JJ? They sound amazing. I'm using EH right now because the JJ went bad. The EH is not bad at all.

Can you tell me more about the SQ of the Ei 6DJ8? Seems to be the only 6DJ8 in production today.

Maurice

dragon1952

These Siemens 6DJ8's don't give up anything in dynamics as far as I'm concerned. As for detail, I heard stuff so clearly with these that seemed almost restrained with the other tubes I've tried. As for the Ei Elites, I liked the JAN Philips we all bought recently much better. The Ei's are nice sounding and smooth but way too laid back and really seem to lack the dynamics of the JAN Philips and the Siemens. I know what you mean though about getting hooked on a NOS and then not being able to find them anymore. I was able to score another pair of the CBS (Siemens) from this dude so hopefully I won't have to worry about it for awhile. Haven't tried the JJ's in the 6922 yet but I like the 12AX7's pretty well.

jcaut

I'll chime in. Bear in mind that I am a tube newbie and I've had my Dodd ELP for less than three weeks.

The two tubes I've used for long enough to form an opinion are the JJ and the Ei Elite 6DJ8. I agree that the Ei sounds more laid back and a little less dynamic. Better for some types of music-- particularly for music that's not especially well-recorded. The JJ's are my favorites though. I can hear the "air" and warmth that I've heard others associate with tube gear. Yet they're very punchy and dynamic, with bass that doesn't give up anything to a SS preamp. Nice.

I briefly tried the NOS Phillips 6922's that I bought from unc_. I too find the green label ones to be annoyingly microphonic: I found that opening the tray of my CD player on the shelf below produces a very audible "ringgggg!", with them in the ELP (and, yes, I need to fill my rack with sand..). The blue label ones don't do that, and from a brief (un broken-in) listen, they sound very similar to the JJ's.

Jason

dragon1952

Boy, that's wierd about the JAN Philips. I got two pair of the green labels from unc and none of them did that in the ELP.

jcaut

It is strange. I've got two pairs also, the one from Ben and one from another source-- Identical markings on the boxs and tubes--and they both do exactly the same thing. I can't say that I can hear any problem with them in normal listening, but they're for sure pretty sensitive and just knowing that makes me a little reluctant to use them. Switching the mute switch on the pre produces a ring that's rather loud, and takes at least 3-4 seconds to die down. None of the other tubes do that.

Jason

organ

Dragon,
Cool. You're set on the Siemens for a long time. Thanks for the info on Ei. I'd still like to try them out sometime in the future. I can see them sounding real nice with very soft material. Yup, the JJ X7 are real nice tubes. I'm gonna get me more of those after getting my ASL pre into service. JJ have two types of X7, check out www.thetubestore.com

Jason,
I agree with you on the JJ 6922. My favorite 6922 so far. The sound is very close to my Mullard 6DJ8. The Mullard is better in the mids, overall smoothness and have a little more 'air', but lacks the dynamics and bass energy of JJ.

Looks like your JAN is a microphonic tube. My green letter JAN doesn't have this problem.

Maurice

dragon1952

I got my Ei 12AX7's, the regular grey plates, yesterday and have had them burning in almost non-stop. I could totally live with these and be perfectly happy. Very sweet and smooth but with good dynamics. I haven't done a head to head yet but I'm sure I like these much better than the JJ's and probably even the '63 GE long plates I've been using. The only thing left I want to try are some 5751's then I can just kick back for awhile and enjoy.

Also, just want to mention that if anyone is looking for some cheap interconnects try this guy on Ebay who assembles the DH Labs BL-1's himself. Anywhere from $20 to $27 or so shipped. Very excellent sounding interconnects. I just bought 2 pair and have them running between the CDP and pre and from the pre to amp. Just do a search on 'DH Labs BL-1'. His username is hit-it-good.

organ

That Ei X7 is an excellent tube. One of my favorites. It's actually a copy of the Telefunken smooth plate.

Don't give up on X7's until you've tried the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The best X7 I've heard. Many feel this is the best one in production today.

Thanks for the heads up on on the IC's.

Maurice

dragon1952

Originally posted by organ

Don't give up on X7's until you've tried the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The best X7 I've heard. Many feel this is the best one in production today.
Maurice

Oh great! Thanks alot! Another one to try now

RuSsMaN

Maurice, you are spot on re: the Sovtek LPS. Simply Phenomenal tube. A sleeper 12AX7, if you can find them, Groove Tubes 12AX7M - an almost perfect Mullard re-tool, and worth rolling through your gear. GE 7025's are also a great sounding mil-spec tube one can pick up for not a lot of scratch.

On the JAN 6922's, I have probably 50 or more in stock, and have shipped out upwards of 30. Not a ringer in the bunch -

The only thing I can think is that some of you guys got tubes right in the middle of a bad run (not likely) - or they were mishandled (more likely), and subjected to forces that no tube should experience (dropping a box full on a concrete floor maybe?)

6922/6DJ8, Old Mullard and Amperex, 7308 Amperex, new Sovtek, and 1986 and earlier JAN (my recommended 'best buy')

I've had both Ei's, and will never use them again. Reliability is the only issue - if you like the sound, YOU like the sound - who am I to tell you any different?

The gold pin is over-rated. The only time a gold pinned tube is of real benefit, is if you have gold sockets also. Using different metals (tube pin vs socket) can actually accelerate corrosion. I can promise you WON'T like them, when one of them takes a dump - I just hope you don't have the volume up when it does.

EH's have always sounded good, but in my experience with front end and power tubes, you almost need to order double whatever you need, just to get a set that works well together.

Cheers,
Russ

dorokusai

I agree, no Ei's for me either. I've also had no issues with any of the JAN's that reside here either. I'm running Amperex Orange and Bugle Boy currently. I actually don't roll very much, as I like a few combinations and they end up installed for quite some time.

A tube is a tube, NOS or not, it's the tube signature or sonics that the individual doesn't enjoy.

To say that a piece of equipment doesn't "like" NOS tubes doesn't make any sense. It's the listener, not the gear.

marker

Originally posted by F1nut
LOL.....

I like the Ei Elites best in the Jolida.

I'll 2nd that. They're the only other ones I've tried other than the stock ones, but they were noticably better IMO.

ohskigod

I went with the EI elites in my Jolida. seemed to have a nice balanced sound to me, I tried Groove Tubes 12AX7R's which were a little muted in the high end, and the EH's which were better, but a little to bright for my taste. EI Elites were just right

I cant remember offhand what I have in my Radii Preamp, I know its 1 12AX7 and 2 12AU7. They were included by Russman when I bought the Pre from him. I swapped in the occasional other 12AX7 with iffy results at best, so its safe to say Russ was right.
I never tried any different 12AU7's

Whats the difference between a 12AX7 and a 12AU7?

RuSsMaN

About 50% less gain in the AU.

I sent you a set of JJ's that came with the Radii. The other tubes included (which you are using) is an AX Telefunken Smooth Plate, and a pair of JAN 6189 (AU).

That was the combination that sounded best to me, in the Radii - and believe me, I rolled them ALL.

Cheers,
Russ

faster100

Ive liked most all the 6922/6dj8 tubes ive tried.. The 7308's amperex gold pins i have now do sound thee best. second going to the jan's blue print tubes... and for a more mellow sound the bugle boys ... the jolida tubes that came with the dodd were ok at best but no real bass, moreso mids and highs.. i loved the sovtek 12ax7lps, and the mullard remake groove tube 12ax7m
liked the telefunken 12ax7's for a more laid back sound IMO..

dragon1952

You know, every time I think I've got it licked I sit down for a listen and am disappointed again. I'm beginning to think it's just me. Sometimes it just sounds so good and other times there's something annoying about it. After just saying that I thought I could live with the Ei's in the Jolida and be happy, last night they sucked. Then I go back to trying this combination and that combination, and start **** with the interconnects using this one between CDP and pre and that one between pre and amp, then the same cables between both. And with the tube pre in the mix it just makes it that much harder to find the right combination of tubes. All I can say is F$@K it! I almost jumped on Steve's Musical Fidelity pre today so all I'd have to worry about was the freakin' Jolida. Maybe it's the stupid Paradigms. That's the only thing I haven't changed yet :rolleyes:

RuSsMaN

First of all, with NEW tubes, old or new stock - let them run for at least 10-20 hours before even considering evaluating them. Tubes DO break in.

Second, let them warm up for a good 15-20 minutes before any kind of critical listening session.

Even though I'm not a fan of Ei, if you have NEW tubes, they could still be changing - for the better, or worse.

Cheers,
Russ

dragon1952

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Even though I'm not a fan of Ei, if you have NEW tubes, they could still be changing - for the better, or worse.
Cheers,
Russ

That would suck if they sounded great right out of the box and then sucked when they broke in
Yeah, maybe I'm not patient enough. I'll have to pay closer attention to warm up and hours I guess. Then I'll **** some more

F1nut

Originally posted by dorokusai

To say that a piece of equipment doesn't "like" NOS tubes doesn't make any sense. It's the listener, not the gear.

I believe the comments that refer to this are based on the player being voiced to new tubes. If it's true or not, I don't know.

As for the Ei's being used in a pre amp, I have no knowledge of. However, I stand by my opinion that in the Jolida cdp, they are fantastic. Since the voltage is so low I don't think there's any chance of them going south in a big way. In fact, I've never heard of anyone having a problem with them in the Jolida.

I have noticed that most tube dealers are out of stock on them. What that means, I'm not sure. I do know Uncle Ned gave them his blessing.

Russ is correct about the corrosion factor with dissimilar metals, but the risk under normal circumstances is minimal at best. They would have to be exposed to very high humidity (moisture) for a period of time before it really became a problem.

dorokusai

I'm sure you have experienced what you in fact have, no question. You have an excellent ear....only one, that other one is a little funky.

As far as the corrosion factor goes, this isn't Arizona, no dry heat here. I would address this point in that it simply doesn't matter if they have gold pins, unless you have gold sockets. Corrosion is just a side effect.

Out of stock means nothing in this world except that you have to return to the store again.

I gave up on Yugoslavia when they started selling the Yugo in the United States.