TV Resolution - how much of a difference?

kberg · July 2005

Comments welcome regarding HOW MUCH BETTER a 1920 x 1080 resolution will be over the 1280 x 720 resolution currently available on today's HD TV's, no matter what the display technology (e.g., DLP, plasma, LCoS, LCD).

Do you believe it will be well worth the wait for these higher resolution sets to come down in price after the "first generation" sets have hit the market?

amulford · July 2005

It's always worth it. I'm kicking my own **** now.

kberg · July 2005

Originally posted by amulford
It's always worth it. I'm kicking my own **** now.

I wouldn't be if I were you, because if you did, then guess what I will be doing within 1 or two years after I get MY new set?!

When it comes to advancements in display (as with other) technologies, I suppose the question of how long one should wait before "pulling the trigger" can never easily be answered!

Mjr7531 · July 2005

I can't help you with the TV part, but I can help you with resolution.
If you're familiar with games on the computer, fire up Half-life, Doom III, etc. Set it to 640 x 480. then set it to 800 x 600.

We may be comparing apples to oranges here, but it puts you in the ballpark.

izafar · July 2005

1280 x 720 gives you 720P HDTV whereas the 1920 x 1080 can give you both 1080i and 1080p (depending upon the associated electronics). Source material comes in a variety of resolution of 480i (NTSC), 480P (DVD) and two forms of HDTV (1080i and 720P). Thus pic quality is a lot dependent upon the scalars that convert the incoming source signal to native resolution of the panel. In short you should not just look at the native resolution of a TV, look for how that TV handles these various incoming resolutions.

HBombToo · July 2005

There is a pretty interesting article in Home Theater regarding contrast and resolution. Just another layer of subjectivity in this crazy hobby!

HBomb

bknauss · July 2005

If you're set on getting a 1080p set, or think you might be once you see the quality, I would wait for another year so most of the TVs out there with 1080p actually can handle a 1080p input. Almost all of the TVs that will be coming out this year with 1080p are simply taking whatever resolution from the input and scaling it to 1080p. I personally wouldn't waste the money on this scaling stuff since its a small stepping stone and there will possibly be a lot more 1080p sources in the coming year or two (Blu Ray movies, HD-DVD, and possibly PS3 games, along with computers). I would liken this to Laserdisc... it was a great jump from VHS, but it was trumped by DVD later on (even though it did take a while).

That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it

Toxis · July 2005

Originally posted by izafar
whereas the 1920 x 1080 can give you both 1080i and 1080p (depending upon the associated electronics).

sorry, but just because it's 1920 x 1080 does NOT mean it'll do 1080p. You need to look into the panel to know what it's native resolution will be.

Plus, 1080p is a great concept but the signal isn't there nor is it coming down the road. They'll look into doing 1440i or 1440p before slightly upgrading to do 1080p.

bknauss · July 2005

Toxis - HD-DVD are supposedly going to be 1080p (and the two HD-DVDs that I know of are 1080p if I'm not mistaken). There won't be a ton of material for some time at that resolution, but there already is something out there.

EDIT: One of the movies I was thinking of is 720p, but the version of T2 you can watch using Windows Media Player is 1080p. Looks like there are also IMAX DVDs out there in WMV-HD that are both 720p and 1080p.

unc2701 · July 2005

OK, I've got a 720 native LCD proj TV and a 1080 CRT TV... w/ 1080i source material, the CRT is noticibly sharper.

HOWEVER:
1)That's just my opinion
2)Those are two very different technologies so comparisons have to include all the issues of each.
3)I tend to prefer 720p over 1080i and they're pretty damn close w/ 720 material- the edge still goes to the CRT, so take it for what it's worth.

Gaara · July 2005

It kind of depends the size of the set. If you were looking at a 1080p 42in dlp vs a 720p model the differences may not be enough to justify the price difference, but if you were looking at a 70in it is a different story.

I researched some of the new 1080p sets coming out in a few months, and none of the brands are making a 42 or 46in dlp. Part of the reason is that the gain in resolution is not that noticeable at smaller sizes, and partly because (according to our Mits rep) the price of 42in plasmas is dropping through the floor (and they are).

Of course even looking at lots of the new 1080p sets coming out alot of them are not true 1080p, such as the new 50in samsung HLR5078W, which uses the wobulating xhd3. Mitsubishi and Toshiba both have thier 1080p sets coming out, the 627,628,727 and the 195 series respectively. The Toshiba set is using the xhd4 chip, which last I heard was not true 1080p, and I can't recall what mits is using.

Of course there are true 1080p sets coming down the pike, like the new sony sxrd xbrs, or the new jvs hdilas.

Also right now there are 1080p sets available such as the Sharp 45in lcds like the 6u and 7u, or the new westinghouse 37in lcd.

Only thing that gets me on these sets is that we are still unsure if they have 1080p inputs, the lcds do, but I am not sure on the dlps, sxrd, or hdila. Last I heard the dlps couldn't handle the 1080p signal, and would just upconvert everything to 1080p, so it would be best to feed it a 1080i signal, less processing.

And speaking of the 1080p signal, last I heard the ps3 announced that 1080p was the standard for all of their games, so lets see if that pans out. I had also heard that blu-ray discs were trying to push to all be 1080p, another one up on hd-dvd.

Jared

kberg · July 2005

Originally posted by Gaara

Of course there are true 1080p sets coming down the pike, like the new sony sxrd xbrs, or the new jvs hdilas.

Jared, what I am currently interested in is the 52" and 56" JVC HD-ILA's. Unless I'm missing something, since DVD's are (currently) in 720, I imagine I would see NO difference in resolution quality, yes?

unc2701 · July 2005

dvd's are in 720x480.... aka 480p

edit:

Oops, that should be 480i. Progress scan DVD players just do the conversion before they output.

Sami · July 2005

Originally posted by unc2701
dvd's are in 720x480.... aka 480p

Or is the material itself 480i?

PolkThug · July 2005

Originally posted by Sami
Or is the material itself 480i?

The original material is beyond current HD. We get the bastardized format for DVD.

Sami · July 2005

Originally posted by PolkThug
The original material is beyond current HD. We get the bastardized format for DVD.

Yes, film is much higher resolution but I was talking about the DVD material which I believe is 480i, not 480p.

unc2701 · July 2005

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=701&page_number=1&preview=

Film is "analog", so you can't really assign a resolution to it... well I guess you could measure the grain of the film, but whatever. That article discusses high resolution scanning of old film for releasing DVD's... interesting read. However, for the DVD's that you & I can buy at the store, they're 480i.

kberg · July 2005

Thanks for that 480i clarification guys.

Btw, I was just talking to a sales guy at a local A/V store today, and he said that for the standard DVD format of 480i, DVD's (supposedly) will look "demonstrably" better on the higher resolution sets. We'll see.....

TheReaper · July 2005

Originally posted by kberg
...DVD's (supposedly) will look "demonstrably" better on the higher resolution sets...

DVDs definately look better on my 42" HDRPTV then they did on my 29" sony.

Gaara · July 2005

kberg,

I don't think that there will be that large of a difference when looking at dvds on a 1080p hdila vs a 720p dila. If done correctly there should be a improvment in picture quality, if of course the scaler and deinterlacer are of decent quality. That improvment, however, I believe will be minimal.

Looking at a 720p Sharp 37in lcd vs. a 1080p Sharp 45in lcd on dvd using a sony dvd player they look about the same. We use the same cables, set them the same in the setup menu, and have them side by side. We are just using component video cables to see how they handle a 480p signal, and I personally couldn't tell a difference. Watching them both in 720p HD I prefer the picture on the 45in model, but not by much.

I am personally anxious and a little worried about the upcoming sets, especially in respect to regular cable and dvd. I think normal analog broadcasts will be looking even worse due to even more processing then current hd sets. Also with alot of the tvs coming up not being a true 1080p (dlps) consumers may be let down that the pictures aren't as amazing as people think they will be. I guess time will tell if dvd is actually going to look that much better, but I am somewhat reserved to say that it will be more then a small increase in picture quality.

Jared

TheReaper · July 2005

I agree with Gaara, if you are talking about going from 720p to 1080 with current DVDs. There won't be much difference, other then the display improvements of a more recent generation.

By the way, the reason I only have a 42" HDRPTV (the 50" was only $100 more). Is because at 6 to 7 feet away, if I went much larger, DVDs would start looking worse. You can only stretch source resolution so far, before the detail starts washing out.

kberg · July 2005

Jared/TheReaper,

Yeah, I suppose I'll have to wait and see what the JVC line has to offer in Hi Res when their new units are expected to arrive sometime this Fall, more specifically the 56" JVC HD-56FH96, which is the one I'm interested in (as it appears they are not slated to release a 52" Hi Res set just yet - damn!). However, because these will be 1st generation Hi Res sets from JVC (versus 4th generation 1280 x 720 sets), I'm hesitant to jump on one right away, and if whay you say above is true, I may even be better off in the long run with the 1280 x 720 display, either in the 52" or 56" model.

The bottom line for me is that this display technology stuff is confusing to me, even with all of the reading I'm doing and info on this forum, since "picture quality" appears to be dependent on so MANY "technical variables" or "display features", aside from the viewers individual opinions of what constitutes a "nice picture".

Hey, maybe the bottom line is just this: If I like it enough and can afford it at the time, just buy the damn thing!

kberg · July 2005

Originally posted by TheReaper
By the way, the reason I only have a 42" HDRPTV (the 50" was only $100 more). Is because at 6 to 7 feet away, if I went much larger, DVDs would start looking worse. You can only stretch source resolution so far, before the detail starts washing out.

Good point. I think that bigger is better, but only JUST BEFORE the point at which detail starts to "degrade" due to one's seating proximity to the screen.