Need advice on a killer 2 channel amp / $2500 budget)

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pearsall001
pearsall001 Posts: 5,002
edited July 2005 in 2 Channel Audio
Looking for a 2 channel amp for my mains - Energy Connoisseur C7's. I will be using my NAD T773 receiver as pre/pro & for the center, & surrounds. I initally thought about going for a 5 channel amp but I'm going in another direction now. The NAD is just too good to replace w/ another amp, especially in the $2000-2500 price range. It would be a lateral move at best & not worth the bucks. I think a killer 2 channel amp would boost my HT and give me what I'm looking for in 2 channel music. Right now I have my sights on a ROGUE AUDIO STEREO 90 TUBE AMP. What are you guys running for 2 channel? All suggestions greatly appreciated!
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,860
    edited July 2005
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    I thought the same thing about my HK AVR 7200 receiver a few months ago, that for a receiver it had about the sweetest amps, I could ask for. When I paired a better amp with the receiver used as a prepro, I didn't get much of a bump. There was more power at hand, but not a dramatic lift in sound quality. It was only once I had put tubes into the picture that the sound changed noticeably for me to have seen the change as a justified upgrade.

    You may get that upgrade feeling with the tube amp you are looking into. I like Rogue Audio's stuff and considered the Magnum 66 for my 2 channel needs.

    I am a believer in having tubes somewhere in your signal path, wherever it makes the most sense for your particular setup. For me, a tube preamp is the ticket since I prefer SS power to drive my SDAs.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,894
    edited July 2005
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    With that kind of budget I don't see how you can go wrong. However, to put that kind of money into a 2-channel amp and continue to use a receiver as preamp you would be blowing your money unless you were planning on getting a kickass preamp later. As long as you wish to combine 2-channel with HT you're wasting your money. Like Dennis said you'll see a moderate improvement at best....certainly not $2500 worth. You'd probably get the same improvement spending $500 or less on a quality used SS 2-channel amp. The way to dramatically improve your 2-channel is to put the largest portion of that budget into a kick **** tube preamp and the rest into a kickass 2-channel amp whether it's a tube or SS. And now that I look you didn't mention what your source is. That's the heart of a 2-channel system.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Inakustik Reference USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,002
    edited July 2005
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    A new pre amp will come down the road a bit. I know the NAD T773 is okay for now as a pre/pro but I'm taking one step at a time. My source for now is a HK DVD 22. More than adequete for now & also on my list for upgrade. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. Thanks for the advice, it makes good sense to me.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited July 2005
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    Ditto precisely what dragon said. I'll add that for HT, you'll wanna consider separate amplification from your center channel, as well. Otherwise, your system may sound a bit off balance during dynamic passages. I started out with a 2-channel amp for my fronts, but once I got a monoblock for the center channel, the system sounded much better.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited July 2005
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    Maybe I am reading a bit to much between the lines. Seems you are in search of some serious nirvana. You looking for new, you may have to up the budget and decide between tube or ss for your 2 channel. For new you might have to up the budget to 5-10K. Used another ball game.

    Maybe something along the lines of Parasound Mono Blocks or Mcintosh mono, I like the idea of monoblocks for hifi, have fun in your search, you are right in buliding one piece at a time. I understand Gary Dodd at Dodd audio builds some nice tube mono's or Cary audio or Conrad Johnson to name a few tube amps.

    Alot to think about but that is half the fun.

    RT1
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited July 2005
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    If you want to get into tube amps I would recommend you do so strictly for a dedicated 2 channel and forget adding one to your HT rig.

    A few popular choices for tube amps, Cary, BAT, CJ, VAC, Manley, VTL, ARC and Mac. Hard to go wrong with any of them. As I understand it, the Rouge gear likes to eat tubes.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited July 2005
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    I recently have done what you are looking to do. I am using a BAT VK60 amp for my front mains (LSI15). I had been driving all the speakers with the Rotel 1065 & was happy. Once the BAT was in the system & system balanced the sound & performance just went to another level. The center & surrounds are still driven by the Rotel. I want go dedicated 2ch at a later date but for now just need to live with one system used for both 2ch & HT. Even for movies there is a noticeable difference in sound from the mains, its hard for me to explain its like the movies are more involving or more dramatic, edge of your seat movie watching. For 2ch I can’t begin to say how much better it is. I feel it has made the biggest improvement. Just need to make sure the amp you purchase has enough power to drive your speakers at the level you listen & have enough headroom for HT. I can watch movies at reference & still have plenty headroom for the action scenes, & my amp is 60 watts per channel. I got my amp used localy for $1700.
    rack05.jpg
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Damn EZ, that's quite a setup you got going there.
    SWEEEEET!!!!!!
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited July 2005
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    You can say that again!!
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Kind of makes you feel a little inadequate, don't it.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited July 2005
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    Thanks! A/V has no end or at least my wife thinks so! Never went looking for a tube amp to buy although I always wanted one. This deal found me & I couldnt refuse. I still feel it was one of the biggest improvments to my system. I been told over & over a good tube pre amp will give me another big improvement for 2ch.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited July 2005
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    Is that the BAT that uses those 'horned' Russian MIG tubes? I forget the number off hand.

    If so, cool amp. Uncle Charlie used to have a pair bridged mono. I think one is still 'in the family'. ;)

    You must be pretty confident of that rack / glass shelf. You're a braver man than me.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ND13
    Kind of makes you feel a little inadequate, don't it.

    no. just my system. ;)
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited July 2005
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    The bat uses the 6C33C output tubes, your it was used in the russin migs. I have a friend that has two VK60's mono blocks driving eggelstons, from using one as stereo to using two in mono wow what an improvment. The rack is a boltz rack. All steel, it can hold lots of weight with no problem. Just ordered 2 additional shelves, Ill remove the 10" where the cdp is & replace with two 7" ones. Love the Bolts products, I can configure the rack to what I need. Got a Marantz 7600 cd/dvd player comming in for my demo unit & needed one more shelf.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,002
    edited July 2005
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    Thanks ezc. Your the first one to reply that has exactly what I'm looking to do. Although I got a ton of great information & straight up advice from others replying to my post. That BAT looks awesome, nice rig you have going there. Hopefully I'll have the same sussess as you have going for you.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ezc
    I recently have done what you are looking to do. I am using a BAT VK60 amp for my front mains (LSI15). I had been driving all the speakers with the Rotel 1065 & was happy. Once the BAT was in the system & system balanced the sound & performance just went to another level. The center & surrounds are still driven by the Rotel. I want go dedicated 2ch at a later date but for now just need to live with one system used for both 2ch & HT. Even for movies there is a noticeable difference in sound from the mains, its hard for me to explain its like the movies are more involving or more dramatic, edge of your seat movie watching. For 2ch I can’t begin to say how much better it is. I feel it has made the biggest improvement. Just need to make sure the amp you purchase has enough power to drive your speakers at the level you listen & have enough headroom for HT. I can watch movies at reference & still have plenty headroom for the action scenes, & my amp is 60 watts per channel. I got my amp used localy for $1700.

    Hey Ace, did you really think it was gonna sound worse than your Rotel? The BAT gear is solid, no doubt....and you're in tube land now.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by F1nut
    If you want to get into tube amps I would recommend you do so strictly for a dedicated 2 channel and forget adding one to your HT rig.

    A few popular choices for tube amps, Cary, BAT, CJ, VAC, Manley, VTL, ARC and Mac. Hard to go wrong with any of them.

    Quicksilver mono's hit Stereophile this month... pretty good read ta boot. The prologue integrated seemed to be gaining some momentum also.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited July 2005
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    Question: What does 'BAT' mean?
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,860
    edited July 2005
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    Balanced Audio Technology
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2005
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    Is that monster power conditioner? Did that have a big effect on yow your system sounded? Or did you get it just in case your house got hit by lightning?
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited July 2005
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    So BAT is an audio equipment manufacturer?
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,806
    edited July 2005
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    http://www.balanced.com/
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited July 2005
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    Ahh, thank you. Much appreciated. Will promptly go drool over audio equipment. :p
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,002
    edited July 2005
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    ezc. How does that BAT work out w/ using the Rotel as pre/pro? I know you said that there was a noticable improvement in the sound for HT as well as 2 channel. I was under the impression that unless you had a first rate pre/pro that a tube amp wouldn't shine up to it's potential. Do you think it's that big of a deal or something you would be upgrading at a later date? I'm looking at doing exactly what you did except using a NAD T773 as pre/pro & for center & rear surrounds. Sounds like a good plan to me.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited July 2005
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    I believe it is generally held that putting a tube pre in the mix will have more of a sonic "tube" effect than adding a tube amp to a ss pre. That said, hey its your rig and ezc seems to be enjoying his setup.

    RT1
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
    edited July 2005
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    I drive my Connoisseur C-9's to insane levels with my modest Parasound HCA-1500A. Approx $950.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited July 2005
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    pearsall001 I have tried a BAT VK51SE tube preamp & it was killer. I had to add another 20amp-dedicated circuit to plug it into & again an improvement. Using the bat pre for HT is not going to happen. Since I use my system for both I have to compromise. But the answer to your question yes there is a noticeable improvement with the Rotel & the BAT, the answer to the other part of your question is yes my system setup for 2ch BAT VK51SE pre, VK60 amp, Njoe Tjoeb CDP does sound noticeably better again but cant do HT. I since have returned the tube pre to a friend who let me try it & re connected my Rotel. I just need to run it this way until I decide if I’m going to go to two separate systems. The BAT integrates well with my system. I did need to rebalance the system & since have been happy. Only **** I have is with all SS equipment I have just one button to push to turn on or off the whole system. With the tube amp I need to power on the system, than the amp manually ( the power switch is on the back) & wait for it to warm up (a few minutes) Yes I do have a Monster HTPS7000 ss & a AVS2000ss they both work well & the improvement was noticeable & worth the cost, we have lots of noise in the lines & my voltage varies between 105 - 130. Doro, when I got the vk60 I had no idea what it would sound like in my system. I have heard it in many 2ch systems (all tube). I figured my Rotel & BAT combo should sound slightly better than the Rot alone but the improvement was even greater than expected. There have not been many upgrades that improved my system more than what I expected but this was one. I have MF X10v3 in my stores demo system & I want to put that in my main system between the receiver & the amp. I think this should give me another small but noticeable improvement for 2ch & HT!
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    How much do those tube buffer stages set one back?
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited July 2005
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    The tube buffer costs about $400. Theres a good post in 2ch
    regarding the MF X10v3.
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited July 2005
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    $399.00 at listen up.com with free ground shipping
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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