Sub Box Too Small?

2

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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2005
    screws, big drywall screws, and lots of them (every 2-3 inches), and you may carpet if you wish, but to make it look good you'll need to extend the sides a bit... that article should have a link to explain what i mean

    p.s. for the love of tim, make sure you measure twice, cut once, and predrill all holes.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    I will go very slow.. I will double check everything... I want this box to be nothing but perfect!!!
    <|>
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    You don't have to use that many screws if you use some glue. OEM companies dont even use nails or screws in their box constructions. They just use glue.

    Glue is very strong and can do alot of the work and do it fine. It leads to a cleaner look.

    I personally just use finish nails and glue.

    However, when you use screws, make sure you countersink them and have the bit extended a lil bit so the MDF does NOT crack and it will be guided somewhat. Nothing sucks more to get a project started and have your wood tear up.

    Just make sure you glue each board before putting them together, and make sure before you put the last exterrior piece on you go through and caulk the seams (take your finger and run over the edges and smear the caulk in. This will seal the enclosure.

    The last exterrior piece should be put on with glue and caulk - the caulk should be put on the edge of the enclosure that is already together, enough that is runs over into the inside of the enclosure.

    Buts screws and all isnt required. Atleast not that many.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2005
    hmm... i do all that and screws :)... i like the look of a naked box with a bunch of screw-heads, it looks cool to me... but vrmthingy is right, wood glue on the MDF before you screw it down, and a bead of caulk along every inside seam.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2005
    depends on what subs you have. I'd like to see someone build me a box for my brahmas when i get my new amps made out of just glue and finishing nails. id give it a month tops before i blew the top off, especially being ported
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by exalted512
    depends on what subs you have. I'd like to see someone build me a box for my brahmas when i get my new amps made out of just glue and finishing nails. id give it a month tops before i blew the top off, especially being ported
    -Cody

    My sub is a Dx-12, your brahmas are way more powerful (I guess)... I'll use lots of glue and some screws for sure...

    :D
    <|>
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2005
    yeah, the brahma is slightly more powerful than the dx in the same way that siberia is slightly colder than death valley
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by neomagus00
    yeah, the brahma is slightly more powerful than the dx in the same way that siberia is slightly colder than death valley

    lol...
    <|>
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    Overbuilding a box isn't always a good thing. Putting screws every few inches, could make the wood more vulnerable to splitting. There comes to a point of excess. I have quite a few boxes with that many screws, and I could take all of them out right now and they would stay in the same shape they are in now. I load down all my enclosure with glue and caulk.

    EarlyConstruct2.jpg
    JIGAmpMountInternal.jpg

    Tons of caulk - tons of screws. Tons of pieces of wood. I could take all of them out, it wouldnt budge a bit.

    Heres one that is just glue and finish nails - every last bit of it...

    BP10BConstructionPic13.jpg

    As for your Brahmas blowing the lid off a subwoofer. I know Brahmas are powerful, but dont flatter yourself! :p

    Check out www.svsubwoofers.com - they offer some monsterous box subwoofers. With dual 50 pound woofers with 1,000+ watts in huge enclosures. They use 1" thick MDF and you wont see any screws, nails holding that enclosure together. Its all glue! They hit 120db + in home, they are no sloucher.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    I read at Crutchfield that is recommendable to use a double layer of MDF on the front panel (where the sub goes) to brace the box…?

    Should I do this? It’s really necessary?
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    Hmm, only reason to double layer the front of the box would be to recess the woofer.

    Since 3/4" MDF with a .5" gasket recessed would leave .25" of wood to screw into.

    As for bracing it, it wouldnt make much of a difference by double layering it.

    Unless the Box is rather large, bracing wouldnt be a big deal. Whatever bracing you add to the box, you will have to calculate with the final volume.

    If you really want to brace, you could add a brace along the sides, top and bottom (maybe a 2" wide, 3/4" thick).

    You can brace the front and back by horizontal or vertical braces that go on the panel itself - not from one panel to the other...

    Here is an idea of bracing....

    BP10BConstructionPic8.jpg

    I added two braces to the bottom section, the OEM version dosnt have that. But they did use a huge vertical piece at the top. Just a small example.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2005
    I take Sid at his word when it comes to box building. The boy knows his ****.

    I would however tend to think Cody has a point. 3000 watts running thru 2 monsters like those Brahma 12's would be a lot for plain old wood glue to handle. Hell, it would be a lot for anything short of concrete to handle!

    Remember, we're not just talking about subs here. We're talking about Cody! :D
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    SVS B4
    b4plusleftfrontqtr.jpg

    Sports 4, 12" [mid-line] woofers. With a power handling up to 2,500 watts.

    All glue and MDF. It can beat most subwoofers OUT-DOORS while the competition is in doors.

    Weighs in excess of 100 pounds, and has no built in amp.

    The woofers it uses.
    http://svsubwoofers.com/subs_csplus_features.htm#woofer

    SVS PB12/2 Ultra
    maple%20back%20low.jpg

    * Twin TV-12 "Ultra" woofers built by TC-Sounds... SVS's best
    * 1,000 watt BASH (R) amp with built-in parametric equalizer
    * Flush-mount amp configuration (220v. version available)
    * Computer Assisted Design (CAD) enclosure
    * Down-firing configuration with distinctive SVS integrated base-plate
    * Compliant floor mounts, low center of gravity
    * Three 4" high-flow flared porting (in and out), two port blocks included.
    * Each sub built and tested by SVS in its Ohio factory.
    * Extra heavy-duty detachable 8 foot power cord
    * Hand finished in four hardwood veneers, gloss or fine textured black
    * Selectable 16Hz, 20Hz or 25Hz extension with included port plugs
    * +/- 2 dB 18 Hz-200 Hz anechoic in 20hz mode**
    * Size: Approx. 19" wide, 26.5" tall and 28" deep. Weight: 190 pounds

    The woofers it uses. http://svsubwoofers.com/parts_woofer_tv12.htm

    All wood and glue pals. They are power houses. That last one uses 600 dollar woofers. It hasnt imploded yet! ;)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2005
    Wow! I couldnt imaging what 2500 watts in subs would sound like in the house!

    I bet that things is built like a tank. You could probably use it as a jack stand for your car!
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    It hit like 120db outdoors at 16hz...

    While a Velodyne DD 18 was hitting 120db at 16hz indoors. At 1 meter that is.

    Its one of those subs with no limits.

    However, I find it odd that they dont use their best woofer in it.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by MacLeod
    3000 watts running thru 2 monsters like those Brahma 12's would be a lot for plain old wood glue to handle...

    I only have a DX12 (400 rms) and a 250 W amp... I feel so little!!! :(
    <|>
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2005
    Dont feel bad. Im only running a single 10 with 350-400 watts.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    at least you have a 350-400 w amp MacLeod... I need one of those...

    Even with money I wouldn't have a huge system... My brother has 2 MTX 12's Blue Legend with a 500W MTX Amp and that's about all I need and want...
    <|>
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2005
    Im not much of a bass freak, never really have been actually.

    I like good bass but I prefer it to not be any louder than the music.

    Plus I listen primarily to heavy metal and a lot of bass in metal sounds like crap.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    I'm not a bass freak either but a head-shaker bass is nice from time to time...
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2005
    I'm striving for pure sound quality, if i happen to like my sound quality loud then so be it. the bl "curve" of my subs is virtually flat across all 29mm of excursion:D
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by exalted512
    I'm striving for pure sound quality, if i happen to like my sound quality loud then so be it. the bl "curve" of my subs is virtually flat across all 29mm of excursion:D
    -Cody

    :eek:
    <|>
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by exalted512
    I'm striving for pure sound quality, if i happen to like my sound quality loud then so be it. the bl "curve" of my subs is virtually flat across all 29mm of excursion:D
    -Cody

    True, SQ is relative.

    For rap and techno, the bass IS the music so its ok for it to be louder than anything else. But in rock, metal, jazz and others, the bass is only a part of the music and so should blend with the rest and not overpower it.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • Mjr7531
    Mjr7531 Posts: 856
    edited July 2005
    The double layering theory for MDF doesn't apply as it does for say Plywood or other natural woods, MDF has no grain, so it doesn't gain strength in the same way other woods do, you'd be better off buy the MDF at the given thickness because it's cheaper and would give the same results.

    As for the B12-Plus/4? Why fix what ain't broke? :p They don't have anymore B4s anymore, the company they were working with to make them couldn't keep up with it, the building process was too difficult, but, they're gonna revamp it now, and we know what that means :)

    FWIW, somebody here HAS to find a way to fit a B4 in their car and use it and tell us what it's like.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    The B4 is an AWESOME design.

    PORTED AND PUSH-PULL. Thats probally one of the most effecient subs you can buy...lol

    As for the B4, to fit two Ultras back to back like they do - it would require an extremely large enclosure. Which is why they didnt do it.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2005
    I used 1/2" birch plywood for my box. Its much stronger than MDF and so I was able to use 1/2" instead of 3/4" and so I was able to get much more interior volume out of it. It is more expensive (I think it was $13 for a 2'x4' sheet) but hey, ya get what ya pay for.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited July 2005
    Isnt there a difference between BALTIC birch plywood and Birch? I have BIRCH plywood is the garage...

    I thought Baltic Birch was rarer and much much more expensive... *scratches noggin*
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Mjr7531
    Mjr7531 Posts: 856
    edited July 2005
    http://www.linearteam.dk/
    That is your friend right there, it'll help you model the sub in as many different ways as you can, either program has a learning curve (go with the pro version, tougher, but much better) but once you learn it, you can build one heck of a sub.

    Mac,
    Agreed, Adire Audio said that Brichwood is on the top of their list of building supplies,
    SVS uses birch caps on their cylinders, the list goes on, if they use it, can't be wrong, eh?
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by MacLeod
    I used 1/2" birch plywood for my box. Its much stronger than MDF and so I was able to use 1/2" instead of 3/4" and so I was able to get much more interior volume out of it. It is more expensive (I think it was $13 for a 2'x4' sheet) but hey, ya get what ya pay for.

    If I use Plywood for my box, can I use 1/2" or should I stick to 3/4"...

    I think I'll use Plywood because is easier to find here in my town...
    <|>
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited July 2005
    no, you really don't want to use plywood if you can help it at all... 3/4" MDF is the de facto standard for a reason (several, actually)...
    1. It's easy to work with
    2. It's non-resonant (happy times for speakers)
    3. It's relatively inexpensive
    4. It's thick - 1/2" boxes flex too much, and flex = bad
    and, if you were to use 1/2" wood on the inside of your box, for the slot-port, you'd have to recalculate the volume, because i used 3/4" wood there...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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