Crossover differances; 1.2 and 1.2tl ??

screename
screename Posts: 321
edited July 2005 in Vintage Speakers
As some here have read I picked up a pair of what I thought to be SRS's a few weekends ago in San Diego. When I got the tl's home from Redondo last week I was checking out the interconnct and noticed that it was pin-blade on both sets of speakers.

It turnes out what I thought were SRS's are 1.2's instead. So my question is; what is involved in upgrading the crossovers in the 1.2's to handle the 3000 tweets, or the RD's i just ordered?

My intention is to set these speakers up side by each and have both pairs going. I don't know if it's a good idea sonically, but I will probably do it just the same.

Here is a pic of my setup from last year. I never had them hooked up at the same time, but will give you an idea of my intention. Although placement to side walls will be better thought out this go around. This time I have the amps and cabling to do it. I guess the test will be when everyting gets here and I see first hand.

One more thought; I will be bi-amping these, is the AI-1 cable required to maintain the SDA effect?
Post edited by screename on
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2005
    Yes , the cable is a must.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited June 2005
    If you are running them side by side, I wouldn't bother with the cable. You'd just mess up the SDA effect so why try? I'd sell off one of the pairs and then have fun.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    If you are running them side by side, I wouldn't bother with the cable. You'd just mess up the SDA effect so why try? I'd sell off one of the pairs and then have fun.

    Wouldn't he at least want the inner pair to run the cable?
    But I agree, unless he just wants to rock out the neighborhood, then just one set will suffice just fine.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited June 2005
    Just so I'm clear, I would use the standard interconnects regardless. I believe I know the answer. Only if I use mono blocks would it require the AI-1.

    And as for sellling a pair, yea I'll get right on that.....lol
    Maybe I just need a taller room and I could stack them vertically. Yea thats the ticket.

    Rock out the neighborhood......EXACTLY
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited June 2005
    From the threads I have read, using any amp(s) where the negative speaker outputs do not have a common ground requires the A1 cable. Sure hope I got that right....


    Since Polk doesn't make that cable anymore, they are scarce. I was fortunate to get one when I got my SRS 2's. If you need to make a A1 interconnect cable, Polksda has a page devoted to it. http://www.polksda.com/A1_Interconnect.pdf

    EDIT: Once again, thanks to Polksda for maintaining his tribute site.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • chuck13
    chuck13 Posts: 19
    edited June 2005
    Sell a pair...?


    Some people just don't understand.

    Rock the neighborhood ...indeed!:D
    Chuck13
    Denon AVR 5803
    Rotel RB 1090 for the Polks :D
    Fronts - Polk SDA SRS's w/ new tweeters
    Surrounds - Klipsch RF - 7(4ea)
    Center - Klipsch RC - 7
    Denon DVD 1600
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    OPPO DVD
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by ND13
    Wouldn't he at least want the inner pair to run the cable?
    But I agree, unless he just wants to rock out the neighborhood, then just one set will suffice just fine.

    Nope, that would still cause all kinds of strange accoustic artifacts. On top of that, you would get some loveley comb filtering running the setup side by side like that, especially as wide as the speakers are. Just use one pair with the interconnect, this should give you great results.

    Of course you could always just try it...
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by chuck13
    Sell a pair...?


    Some people just don't understand.

    Rock the neighborhood ...indeed!:D

    No, I think plenty DO UNDERSTAND. I never said sell a pair, all I said was one will suffice just nicely. Especially in a room of that size.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited June 2005
    I believe the simple setup will be to put the 1.2's on the inside without the interconnect and the tl's on the outside with it. This would be the simplest setup.

    The complicated one would be somehow swap the sda drivers to the outside speakers and put the regular drivers to the inside. I envision somekind of one-off interconnect to transfer the internal wiring form the inside speakers to the outside speaker and vice-versa.

    I realize this is some crazy **** I'm talking here and one would argue to enjoy them for what they are. But, if I were one to leave well enough alone I would have never ended up with two pairs in the first place.

    Lastly, I know I have read about upgrading the 1.2 crossover to work with the sl3000 tweets, and that is what this was originally about. This is actually something that I will probably skip doing unless it is reasonable simple. I don't know that I would be able to tell a big differance anyway. I know I can hear the differance between the the two types, but in the setup I am proposing it may not matter.

    God I love this ****.

    BTW the room size is a temporary inconvienience. An apartment, while I remodel our house.

    Your comments are appreciated
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2005
    Is it an optical illusion or is one of the tweeters in the nude one on the left different than the others?
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by ND13
    Is it an optical illusion or is one of the tweeters in the nude one on the left different than the others?

    Nope not optical, it was a replacement for a faulty tweet. He has since sold these two and was missing them so much he went out and bought two more sets, (and had a hell of a lot of drive time picking them up).

    That would be interesting though, moving all the SDA drivers to one speaker and the other drivers to the other, require much re-wiring no doubt....
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by screename


    BTW the room size is a temporary inconvienience. An apartment, while I remodel our house.


    Couldn't ignore the pun opportunity.....that was a good move.:D
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited June 2005
    That would be interesting though, moving all the SDA drivers to one speaker and the other drivers to the other, require much re-wiring no doubt....



    Yea but imagine that, I think I would call it an SDA 12.2TL I've almost convinced myself it would work....lol. I still doubt I would actually do it but it's fun to joke about.

    I am sure that I am making SDA fans a little sick with this blashpemy. Oh well, joke em if they can't take a FU@K
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited June 2005
    Changing the 1.2 to a 1.2TL could be done, but it would involve changing much of the circuit in addition to new inductors.

    Running two sets side by side isn't going to work and putting all the SDA drivers in one cabinet and the stereo drivers in the other is just out right stupid. If you understood the basics of SDA technology you would quickly realize why neither of those ideas would ever work.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited June 2005
    B..

    That would be downright stupid, so don't do it....:D

    S....

    edit: sorry it is out right stupid!!!!! Who would suggest such a thing? YOU? ME? No way.....try it anyway and report back to me. You have my cell #..

    Cheers to all:

    S. Again
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited June 2005
    Since you have no idea what you are talking about, sit down and shut the fu*k up.:rolleyes:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited June 2005
    Be careful F1, I am going to get RusS on you.......:D:) :(:o:p;):D :cool: :rolleyes: :mad: :confused: :eek:

    Whatever.........

    Screen, we are playing phone tag, pick up your phone, I am calling now..


    EDIT: dArN iT, Do yA HaVe YoUr CeLl oN yOu?
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited June 2005
    The Gods have spoken.....

    Don't mind me I'll be over here sitting down and shutting the F up.......ROFLMAO
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited June 2005
    Let's try something very simple here. Can either of you two geniuses explain what the distance between the mid drivers is equal to???
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited June 2005
    Is this a trick question? or do you want me to bust out the ruler? Are you referring to the wavelength of a given frequency produced by the different drivers?


    F1 - B.T.W. just trying to have a good time, it's thursday, and I am about to mix up a Margarita. Thanks for posting all the valuable info that you do. That is my humble apology to you in the event you are finding offense to any of this mumbo jumbo. Screen isn't going to do anything wacky with his newly acquired Quad SRS setup. He was thinking out loud and typing at the same time....the whole WHAT IF I?
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited June 2005
    I'm guessing here but it seems to be equal the distance between my ears. Now I have kind of a big head but it seems close.

    BTW it's ok if you want to call my idea stupid, or me for that matter. I'm sure I will survive it. I wish this thread would have gone in a direction of finding a way to do my crazy idea instead of simply calling it stupid.

    In all seriousness, I am not trying to piss you off F1. I wouldn't have the 1.2's had it not been for your taking the time to let the forum know. This thread was about making the change over in crossovers and got a little sidetracked.

    I am sure you have a wealth of knowledge about these speakers that I will simplly never know and I respect that. I would like to find an intelligent way to run both pairs but it seems that's impossible given the features of SDA concept.

    Ken offered me the schematics of both pairs and I'm sure I remember finding them in this forum. I have reviewed DarqueKnight's upgrade of his crossovers, but this isn't the same thing as ugrading from 1.2 to 1.2tl. I'm cool with them being differant. I guess I just need two rooms for them instead of one.

    Am I the only guy to ever put forth such an outrageous idea?
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by screename


    Am I the only guy to ever put forth such an outrageous idea?

    You guys 'polkin' fun at one another without a license?:D

    I am reminded of a quote by Shaw.....

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

    Of course everything is relative and subject to debate....just beware when speaking in absolutes is good advice.

    Long weekend coming up......:cool:
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited June 2005
    Ok guys, I shouldn't have said the idea was stupid. I should have left it at, the idea won't work.

    Screen hit the nail on the head.....or should I say between the ears and that's exactly why changing that distance will cause the SDA effect to crease functioning properly. I don't know if you're the only one to ask, what if? Probably not. Ask Ken for a copy of the SDA white paper called "Designed In Stereo", it goes into great detail on the theory of SDA technology.

    Back to the crossover topic. As stated, it could be done. I quess the question would be is the cost worth it to you and if so, did you want to do it yourself or have a tech do it for you? I'd be glad to help if you want to try it yourself.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited June 2005
    AHHHHH.....Group Hug By All........

    BTW Brad

    I have a Micro Min station at work, so if you are looking at upgrading or doing some fine soldering, send me the schem. maybe come down for a weekend and we can throw on a set of goggles and get down to some heat. "Weird Science" style..

    scott
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited June 2005
    F the group hug......jk I'm not a hugger I guess.....

    I will get with Scott for a weekend in San Diego and see if we could get this done. I have changed a few lights in my amps but would be initialy overwhelmed by the complications involved in crossover upgrades. I am sure Scott would be a great help in this area as I believe he does this sort of thing for a living. That's very generous of you Scott. TY

    Also, F1 I sincerely appreciate your offer, and I will probably go for it on the upgrade. I believe your assistance would be invaluable.

    I would like to upgrade any componets on both of them at the same time as well as replacing the posts; similiar to what I saw in DarqueKnight's systems. Although, I would keep both sets of posts to bi-amp them. These are some amazing speakers and I can see these upgrades would make them better.

    Have a nice 4th all.


    Peter Bradley Popp
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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited June 2005
    Agree..

    Have a happy 4th, I am off to the land of the cheeze and beer...I'll be searching for the Spirit of St. Vince, (Lombardi), that is. Will crack open some Blatz, (hate it), but is all I could afford "back in the day" and some Old Style....or some Special Export....anyone feeling me here? Anywho, we can certainly upgrade your stuff,

    We'll just have to ask the experts about what components to get, tolerances, values, etc. And of course, the schematic. Maybe polk has some PCB's we could use, we could go down to the SD service facility and see if they have some lying around....or should I dare say get a Bread Board from the school house...?

    Anywho....have a great holiday season folks....

    Be safe with them fire crackers. and by all means if you are going to place your polks outside so the neighbors can party with you, ensure you keep them from the bottle rockets..

    Cheers

    Scott

    B.T.W. I am still having that margarita.....about 5 down now....big cups.......:confused::p :eek:
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by screename
    My intention is to set these speakers up side by each and have both pairs going. I don't know if it's a good idea sonically, but I will probably do it just the same.


    I did that once. It really sucked. It had an extremely smeared soundstage. You would be better off setting up a multi-channel DVD-A or SACD system with the two pair. Then you would really have something. :)

    madmax


    Edit: Oops, I should have read the whole thread first. :eek:
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • screename
    screename Posts: 321
    edited July 2005
    Max,

    Are you refering to a kind of Quad setup?
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2005
    I was refering to standard multichannel SACD or DVD-A for music. Front L and R and Rear L and R. The players can be had for under $100. You would need 4 channels of amplification too...
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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