New J D Power ranking on reliability on 3 year old cars

Danny Tse

Surprising number of domestic name plates that are above industry average. On the other hand, if I pay mucho $$$ for a Lexus/Porsche/Cadillac/_____ (fill in name of luxury brand), I should get extremely high quality.....so what happened to Mercedes-Benz?

J.D. Power and Associates on Wednesday released its annual survey of vehicle dependability based on questionnaires sent to owners of 2002 model year vehicles. The list ranks vehicle brands by the problems their owners reported per 100 vehicles.
Brand Problems per 100 vehicles....

Lexus 139
Porsche 149
Lincoln 151
Buick 163
Cadillac 175
Infiniti 178
Toyota 194
Mercury 195
Honda 201
Acura 203
BMW 225
Ford 231
Chevrolet 232
Chrysler 235
INDUSTRY AVERAGE 237
Saturn 240
Oldsmobile 242
GMC 245
Pontiac 245
Mazda 252
Hyundai 260
Subaru 260
Volvo 266
Jaguar 268
Dodge 273
Nissan 275
Mitsubishi 278
Mercedes-Benz 283
Saab 286
Jeep 289
Suzuki 292
Audi 312
Daewoo 318
Isuzu 331
Volkswagen 335
Mini 383
Land Rover 395
Kia 397

Source: J.D. Power and Associates

See below article for details.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050629/bs_nm/autos_quality_dc

swerve

just goes to show you can't truely be blinging in a new kia.

dragon1952

Maybe a bit misleading on the Lincoln, Buick and Cadillacs. Most of the owners either don't live for 3 more years after buying the cars or are just too damn old to notice problems in the first place

audiobliss

Originally posted by dragon1952
Maybe a bit misleading on the Lincoln, Buick and Cadillacs. Most of the owners either don't live for 3 more years after buying the cars or are just too damn old to notice problems in the first place

ROFL That just hilarious!

Toxis

Originally posted by dragon1952
Maybe a bit misleading on the Lincoln, Buick and Cadillacs. Most of the owners either don't live for 3 more years after buying the cars or are just too damn old to notice problems in the first place

That's no joke! Seriously, when you get a new car and in 3 years put less than 5k miles on it... how many issues CAN you have? Not to mention you never take it over 30mph.

Well, I guess you could have issues with the electronics seeing out of those 5k miles, 3750+ of them had the turn signal on.

thehaens@cox.net

Originally posted by Danny Tse
so what happened to Mercedes-Benz?



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050629/bs_nm/autos_quality_dc

They combined with Chrysler...

billbillw

Who cares about 3 years. That's the part that is still under warranty. I want to see about 5 years. That's when the domestic brands start to fall apart while the imports just keep on ticking.
My VW had 3 or 4 problems in the 1st couple years while it was under B-B warranty. No problem, they fixed them and usually had me in a loaner.

Since then (going on 5 years and 77,000), it has been perfect. Sometimes there are a few bugs to work out.

billbillw

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
They combined with Chrysler...

Actually, Chrysler was well above them. Benzos have never been know to be the most reliable.

To quote Sir Mix Alot: "got a roll this bucket cuz my Benz is in the shop"

thehaens@cox.net

Originally posted by billbillw
Actually, Chrysler was well above them. Benzos have never been know to be the most reliable.

To quote Sir Mix Alot: "got a roll this bucket cuz my Benz is in the shop"

What, you are quoting the great poet? I would say some of your statement is true, pride of ownership in the benz keeps many of them on the road. Owners just keep getting them fixed. However, the older diesels do really well in regard to longevity, personnaly wouldn't buy a 240d as I do have to get to work on time, but there is something to be said with a car that will go and go......w/ little maint. On that note, I have owned my 91 190e for about 8 years and have never had any major problems. Alternator and water pump....is all....

And I really thought, that Merc. was always known to be very reliable....

I think mix a lot was saying it was in the shop getting "pimped" and not repaired...

billbillw

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
What, you are quoting the great poet? I would say some of your statement is true, pride of ownership in the benz keeps many of them on the road. Owners just keep getting them fixed. However, the older diesels do really well in regard to longevity, personnaly wouldn't buy a 240d as I do have to get to work on time, but there is something to be said with a car that will go and go......w/ little maint. On that note, I have owned my 91 190e for about 8 years and have never had any major problems. Alternator and water pump....is all....

And I really thought, that Merc. was always known to be very reliable....

I think mix a lot was saying it was in the shop getting "pimped" and not repaired...

I was kidding about the Benz in the shop. Benzs do run forever. They may need a hefty share of maintenance, but so what. That's the problem with these JD power surveys. They pick up on all the little things that often go awry in the first few years of a cars life. Like I said, these are usually covered under warranty anyway and most of the time these things have nothing to do with the actual quality of a car. If you think a Chevy is better quality than a Mercedes, then I've got a few things to sell you. These surveys offer nothing useful. Just look around you and see what cars are still on the road after 10 years and what shape they are in. That will tell you what is quality.

TroyD

Originally posted by swerve
just goes to show you can't truely be blinging in a new kia.

We've had ours about a year and a half and no issues so far.......blinging? Maybe not, but at 10K less than the equivalent models from other companies, I can live with it. Also, with the warranty on them, if it does dick up, I take it in and they fix it.

I don't need a hefty car payment to prove anything to anyone.

BDT

ND13

Originally posted by billbillw
I was kidding about the Benz in the shop. Benzs do run forever. They may need a hefty share of maintenance, but so what. That's the problem with these JD power surveys. They pick up on all the little things that often go awry in the first few years of a cars life. Like I said, these are usually covered under warranty anyway and most of the time these things have nothing to do with the actual quality of a car. If you think a Chevy is better quality than a Mercedes, then I've got a few things to sell you. These surveys offer nothing useful. Just look around you and see what cars are still on the road after 10 years and what shape they are in. That will tell you what is quality.

SOOOOO TRUE!!!!!!

audiobliss

Originally posted by TroyD
I don't need a hefty car payment to prove anything to anyone.

Nope. You just need a nice car in the driveway! Just pickin'!

ND13

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
They combined with Chrysler...

And your point is?

Toxis

Just the other week, we had a benz (late 80's, early 90's) with 400,000 miles on it and still looked amazing. Ran like a champ too!!

MacLeod

I was suprised by how low Dodge is.

Ive owned 2 Rams and both have run flawlessly.

My '02 model has 62,000 on it and has had ZERO problems of anykind!

Of course I remember the 1994 survey, Dodge was dead last! I guess theyve come a long way.

ND13

Originally posted by MacLeod
I was suprised by how low Dodge is.

I've owned 2 Rams and both have run flawlessly.

My '02 model has 62,000 on it and has had ZERO problems of anykind!

Of course I remember the 1994 survey, Dodge was dead last! I guess theyve come a long way.

Mac,

You know how stats work; they can be twisted to make any side's point. I wouldn't worry about what JD Power puts in there reports. Even worse is Consumer Reports. I'm in the car business, and just happen to be at a Dodge dealer now. I've sold almost every make, at one time or another, whether new or used, and all have their strong and weak points. I've seen lemons from Honda , Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Mercedes, BMW, VW, etc,etc...... I wouldn't let anyone tell me which vehicle I should spend my $30k(aprox. industry new car avg.) on, I'll make that decision on my own, and all of you should, also.

Toxis

Consumer Reports is the devil. Talk about the biggest group of retards and uneducated people who like to talk up stuff they have no clue about. They actually rated the Onkyo 602 the best receiver under $1000. Hmmm, what about the 702 or 801? And why weren't Denon or HK even involved in their little testing??? BIAS!!!

bknauss

Originally posted by MacLeod
I was suprised by how low Dodge is.

I'm surprised how high Ford is. Maybe I just always seem to catch a headline for their major recalls...

And no, I'm not bashing Ford. I own a Mazda, so I'd be bashing a company under the same umbrella.

ND13

Originally posted by Toxis
Consumer Reports is the devil. Talk about the biggest group of retards and uneducated people who like to talk up stuff they have no clue about. They actually rated the Onkyo 602 the best receiver under $1000. Hmmm, what about the 702 or 801? And why weren't Denon or HK even involved in their little testing??? BIAS!!!

I seem to remember an aquaintance of mine did a background research on the "TRUE" owners of CR and found that it was owned by a Japanese conglomerate. Now I know plenty are going to say the opposite, but he dove very deep into the research. It's an extremely well kept secret, and they definitely don't want that known publicly. It would definitely show bias.
It is by far the most biased rating rag out there. Consumer's Digest is the least biased that I've found, but I still take it all with a grain of salt.

ND13

Originally posted by bknauss
I'm surprised how high Ford is. Maybe I just always seem to catch a headline for their major recalls...

And no, I'm not bashing Ford. I own a Mazda, so I'd be bashing a company under the same umbrella.

Recalls happen to all of the manufacturers, not just the domestics. Because of the sheer volume of makes like Ford, Chevy, and Dodge the numbers are inflated. One should look at the percentages. Chrysler's warranty claim numbers have decreased dramatically over the last couple of years, hence the dropping of the 7/70 powertrain warranty on the 2006 models.

aaharvel

Originally posted by Danny Tse
so what happened to Mercedes-Benz?

funny you mention Mercedes. Last night a mid 90's EClass caught (was set?) on fire around midnight. Son of a **** went up like a Fireball from hell! Firefighters came down- put it out, then they opened up the trunk and the flames shot up again!!! WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shireen my neighbor captured it all on her digital camera. i'm gonna get her to email me the pics and then i'll post them.

Guys you should have seen what was left of this car- actually it's still in our apt. parking lot so i'll get a pic of the remains too! PEACE!

And don't buy a Mercedes!

disneyjoe7

Recalls do occur with all manufactures. The difference I have seen is this ****'s will see a problem and will actively look for you to correct it. Others (You fill in the blank) would fix it when it broke on you and you noticed it to bring it in. Or will admit that yes there's a problem with that only when called out on it.


Examples are Honda had a problem with distributor bearings failing causing noise perhaps whole failure. Recalled letter sent out a $700 distributor was replace when if you didn't notice a problem. Others (You fill in the blank) I'm sure people where bringing into dealers or call insurance company (after house fire) for a cruise control cut off switch. But only when called out by local 2 WESH news Daytona / Orlando Florida had they admit oh yes we have a problem with that. Honda / Acura have a problem with their new 3 years now 5 speed auto transmission they are standing behind it for 40k more miles after the standard warranty or till 100k miles. They are doing this because there is a higher returns under warranty then they feel should be. Tell me a (you fill in the blank) would do this. I think from prior experience the dealer would be more the happy to charge you $2500+ for a new one.

bknauss

I understand recalls happen to all cars... my car had one nearly right away for possible problems with the side air bag. It just seems like Ford seems to have recalls for big things too much (or, like I said, I always seem to see them). I'm talking on the magnitude of something like the Prius's shutting off in the middle of the road!

madmax

Originally posted by aaharvel
funny you mention Mercedes. Last night a mid 90's EClass caught (was set?) on fire around midnight. Son of a **** went up like a Fireball from hell! Firefighters came down- put it out, then they opened up the trunk and the flames shot up again!!! WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw a mini van in a walmart parking lot go from a small flame on a seat (probably from a cigarette) to an engulfed fireball in about 30 seconds. Absolutely amazing how fast! Had you been sitting in the van it would have been questionable whether or not you would have had time to get out, it was that quick!

madmax

ND13

Originally posted by bknauss
I understand recalls happen to all cars... my car had one nearly right away for possible problems with the side air bag. It just seems like Ford seems to have recalls for big things too much (or, like I said, I always seem to see them). I'm talking on the magnitude of something like the Prius's shutting off in the middle of the road!

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but how did your post go from Ford recalls to Toyota.

What it does show is even Toyota has issues to deal with, especially when it comes to new technologies. Toyota is "supposedly" one of the best engineered makes out there, so one would have thought they would have perfected the hybrid drivetrain a little more before releasing it to the public.

thehaens@cox.net

Originally posted by ND13
And your point is?

My point is that the Reliability of the benz and reputation for that matter has gone down hill since the merge w/ chrysler corp. Go down to your Merc. Dealer, or independant, and count how many newer models as compared to the older models are in the shop. (this could be due to routine maint) Take a look at what the dealers sales staff is driving or the mechanics for that matter. I see it every day when I drive past the dealer. On the side street next to the dealer you will find pre 2000 E300's , 300CD's, 70's and 80's model SL's, SDL's etc. I am just making an observation...

Now with that said, I def. wouldn't mind getting into the new SL65 or any of the AMG line up, or even the E320CDi, (not sold in Cali).

thehaens@cox.net

Originally posted by Toxis
Just the other week, we had a benz (late 80's, early 90's) with 400,000 miles on it and still looked amazing. Ran like a champ too!!

He should of had a medalion on the grill....

I wonder if Merc. still does that...(Gives out medallions for cars that have over 500Km......) There used to be a form that came w/ the older model cars to submit when your car is certified to have reached 500Km

ND13

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
My point is that the Reliability of the benz and reputation for that matter has gone down hill since the merge w/ chrysler corp. Go down to your Merc. Dealer, or independant, and count how many newer models as compared to the older models are in the shop. (this could be due to routine maint) Take a look at what the dealers sales staff is driving or the mechanics for that matter. I see it every day when I drive past the dealer. On the side street next to the dealer you will find pre 2000 E300's , 300CD's, 70's and 80's model SL's, SDL's etc. I am just making an observation...

Now with that said, I def. wouldn't mind getting into the new SL65 or any of the AMG line up, or even the E320CDi, (not sold in Cali).

The merger with Chrysler has nothing whatsoever to do with Mercedes reliablity issues. The sharing of technology between the two is extremely one-sided. The only thing Chrysler shares with Mercedes is styling. Mercedes has just recently started sharing their tech with Chrysler, ie 300/Magnum/Charger/Sprinter/Crossfire. The 300/Magnum/Charger share about 25% of there components with the E class and the Crossfire is virtually a rebadged, old-body SLK with Chrysler styling.

ND13

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
He should of had a medalion on the grill....

I wonder if Merc. still does that...(Gives out medallions for cars that have over 500Km......) There used to be a form that came w/ the older model cars to submit when your car is certified to have reached 500Km

Yes they still do that as long as it is verifiable through a dealership or certified shop.

Mike682

Originally posted by ND13
The merger with Chrysler has nothing whatsoever to do with Mercedes reliablity issues. The sharing of technology between the two is extremely one-sided. The only thing Chrysler shares with Mercedes is styling. Mercedes has just recently started sharing their tech with Chrysler, ie 300/Magnum/Charger/Sprinter/Crossfire. The 300/Magnum/Charger share about 25% of there components with the E class and the Crossfire is virtually a rebadged, old-body SLK with Chrysler styling.

Read this article:

http://www.allpar.com/cars/me412.html

Mike