Large or Small
Comments
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Wow . . . great discussion . . .
I am, however, a bit confused. What about a HTIB system like the Polk RM 6800? I have it matched up with a Onkyo TX LR552 Reciever.
I have the system set up based upon the Polk recomendations of the L and R speaker outputs from the Onkyo reciever feeding into the subwoofer, then from the sub feed to the respective speakers.
I currently have the Onkyo speaker setting on "Large" for all speakers with the crossover set at 60 Hz. I am assuming that the Onkyo crossover setting makes no difference since the L and R speaker signal is going directly from the amp into the sub, thus using the Polk internal crossover in the sub.
So, in my case, does "Large" and "Small" really matter? I basically am assuming that I should do everything on my end to make sure that the Onkyo outputs as much of a full frequency response to the Polk subwoofer and let the subwoofer take it from there. Any thoughts? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -
Originally posted by dorokusai
We don't really contribute to this forum with half-truths and made up ideas, but you're new here so you wouldn't really know. I realize that you're trying to establish a point, and it's almost there. Thanks for getting involved, this is what it's all about.
I commented on acoustics because you mentioned your worthwhile project, and it's simply a statement. I never stated that it had anything to do with a speaker being large or small.
The guidelines are simply guidelines, not absolute truth. If you believe them in their full capacity then, for example, you would be a THX slave or DTS slave....not both. You won't see any theatres stating "...Amazing THX AND DTS sound!" but you will find ALL of us HT folks running both formats. You can only setup your room so much until you get to the fact that you must address larger issues, IF there is a "problem" to begin with.
A speaker being large or small, is a small issue. It's not hard to get great performance from a system, the measurement of that is wholly on the individual. There are some of us, freaks, that think WAY too much about it.
Just because a speaker doesn't pull 110db at 30hz, doesn't make it ineligible for a large setting, that's just ridiculous.
The slope of the speaker crossover is the better factor as it's a design application, not an electronic adjustment. The filter in an AVR has a slope just like a crossover. I would love to hear your thoughts on how and AVR slope pattern and adjustment is better than a speaker's crossover. More flexible? Sure, no ****, that's a no brainer, but that's about all you got, and it's not inherently "better" per se. It performs a function to integrate it into a consumers enviroment, as you NEVER really know what's going to connected to it, that's all, nothing magical or mysterious. If your speaker can't handle it, then you must adjust. You can't blame the speaker for the media involved.
If there was no magic or mystery to audio then we wouldn't have this forum huh? Or the 100's of other forums talking about this or that. Or a Polk Cable Swap Program....blah blah.
Reaper and Mike are on the page, as it's really subjective on the owners end, and simply not always factual, or per the guidelines. Ah, the beauty of this hobby rears its ugly head again. They go with what sounds best, AMEN.
+1
Crunchy
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Originally posted by mcquillian
So, in my case, does "Large" and "Small" really matter? I basically am assuming that I should do everything on my end to make sure that the Onkyo outputs as much of a full frequency response to the Polk subwoofer and let the subwoofer take it from there. Any thoughts? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
There are a few instances where setting your speakers to large is the best case scenario, but more often than not there are better ways of accomplishing your goal which is, better sounding music/movies.
Think of it this way, would you put a $100,000 engine in a car with the aerodynamics of a brick and expect top performance? Many people mistakenly believe by only tinkering with the electronics/speakers that they will achieve the best possible sound. The room is at least 50% of the sound and sometimes more yet it is the most often ignored. Every audio engineer will tell you they would rather have a $10,000 studio with the right acoustics than a $70,000 system in a studio with horrible acoustics its that important!
There are two primary reasons people set their speakers to large, the number one being poor acoustical reaction from their room. You can do a search on Google for Room Mode to find out detailed info on your rooms holes. The second and a close contender is a misconception on your goals. Let me explain my thinking
OK, you have your HTiB and you place your speakers in their proper places according to all the manuals, yet you just dont get that enveloping effect. Now, your goal is probably good quality sound and your best example is probably a true theater. Attaining that quality of sound is near impossible and unrealistic unless you have a lot of money to burn, which most of us do not. Realistic goals should be these:
A good soundstage (sound coming from where it is supposed to be)
Transparency (sound should move from speaker to speaker fluidly and w/o notice)
No overpowering frequencies (there should be no harshness to the sound)
Omni directional bass (people should not be able to point out where your sub is)
In sync (there should be no echo or out of sync sounds delay)
Realistic expectations
There is no way I could go through all the details in a single thread so I would recommend you do searches on these terms, room mode, acoustical treatment, bass trap and bass management.
My debate with some is not exactly if you should set your speakers to large but rather have you followed the standards before giving up. Most of my friends have HTiB and all were very happy with their setups until they visited my home and listened to music (Jazz in particular) and watched a movie or two. The reason is because I used treatments, bass traps, followed standards and arranged the living room in a manner that would aid instead of hamper the theater experience and still did it with the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) intact.
