DD vs. DTS

jrlouie
jrlouie Posts: 462
edited June 2005 in Electronics
Wow. Just thought I'd mention this is the first time I've really noticed a dramatic difference between DD and DTS. So I'm watching a Coldplay concert on DVD and decided to try out the speakers all on small and use the sub more. After that, I'm watching in DD and all sounds good. I flip to DTS and a dramatic change. Bass is much lower, front left and right seperation is much less aparent and center channel is more pronounced. Also, the surrounds were less audible when in DTS.
Anyone else experience this? Any known reasons?
Post edited by jrlouie on
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  • bknauss
    bknauss Posts: 1,441
    edited June 2005
    I've heard the only reason people like DTS more is because its louder (and psychoacoustics generally tell us that louder is better).

    I don't know exactly if DTS or DD is better. I don't know if a DTS disc has had more time and effort put into the audio. Maybe the marketing has gotten to me if nothing else, but I always listen to the DTS track.
    Brian Knauss
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited June 2005
    DTS has be known to mix "hotter" then DD, with a little more bass and highs. If this is how you prefer to listen then it will sound better to you. DD has the rep of being more accurate, but how accurate is any soundtrack that has sound in outerspace?:D

    The success rate is very disc dependent, I really find some DD to be much better in the dialogue area, and seem to prefer DTS for some of my music discs, as I like lots of volume and fullness in my music.

    Actually, I love it when one disc holds both options, since I feel I get more for my money.:)
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  • jrlouie
    jrlouie Posts: 462
    edited June 2005
    Yeah, I've heard about DTS being known to be "hotter". I wonder why my scenario was exactly the opposite?
    I'm guessing it's just how the disc was produced. I don't know.

    I too often default to DTS if the disc has a selection. But this puts a new spin on things for me as I definitely liked the DD track better on this disc.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited June 2005
    DTS pretty much rules when you compare it to DD. i know some people prefer DD or can't really tell a difference. I can. and it's gold baby, pure gold. :D
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited June 2005
    for sound quality: DTS > Dolby.
    If you want a good comparo then play Gladiator.
    No comparison.

    However, if given a choice between the two I'd still pick Dolby considering you can compress it for late-night (aka APARTMENT) listening. =)
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited June 2005
    DTS adds 3db to the rears and 10db to the LFE. Not to mention it's less compressed so the overall SQ will be better. I have heard it's "hotter" but nothing to back that up. Just opinions.
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

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  • gregure
    gregure Posts: 871
    edited June 2005
    Jeez, this again. DTS is usually better, and I have found this to be true enough times that I default to DTS if it is available.
    However, DD is still very good, and there are many THX certified, DD only DVD's out there that have excellent mixes.
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,879
    edited June 2005
    The fact that DTS uses less compression makes it better overall. What jrflouie may be experiencing is his receiver may be calibrated different on the DTS setting. Many recievers have memory unique to each format/input. My Denon will remember different level settings on DD and DTS, so each needs to be calibrated. Of course, you can only adjust the DTS settings when a DTS track is playing.
    After calibration, the DTS should sound better.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited June 2005
    I thought the same thing. DTS just seems like weaker sound.....

    I was going to blame it on my processor (Onkyo AVR) but now I am not sure. Just play the Oliphant charge in lord of the rings in both DTS and DD. On my system it sounds like you turn the LFE channel down about 3-5 db with the DTS channel.

    Then again - the Eagles hell freezes over dvd sounds great in DTS so maybe it is just the mix.....

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited June 2005
    I think the issue is mainly which sound engineering camp did a better job on a particular movie, the DD or DTS guys. I generally prefer the DTS track.

    Spiderman 2 (superbit): DTS > DD
    Pirates of the Caribbean: DD > DTS
    Underworld (superbit): DD = DTS

    In Spiderman2, after you equalize for spl's, the DTS track has greater clarity.

    I heard many people say they like the DD in Pirates better.

    I was disappointed by Underworld DTS, I think because the DD track is already so "overcooked" that there isn't much difference.

    I prefer the Pod Race scene in DTS, seems to have "more bass."

    Regards,
    PT
    Never Forget
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited June 2005
    Episode I's pod race is in DTS? How'd they do that?
    sweet!
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  • jrlouie
    jrlouie Posts: 462
    edited June 2005
    I think the issue is mainly which sound engineering camp did a better job on a particular movie, the DD or DTS guys.
    This is what I'm beginning to think.

    I also checked and I can't find a way to customize level calibration between DD and DTS on my AVR. I can do this between digital and multi-channel analog. But the only thing I can find for DD/DTS customization is the ability to set the LFE level different. That wouldn't take care of this disc's lack of channel seperation, pronounce center channel, etc. for DTS.
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  • gregure
    gregure Posts: 871
    edited June 2005
    I had an issue with DTS seeming to be at a lower volume on the Onkyo 701 as well. I think it may be an issue with Onkyo's DTS decoder. I would usually have to turn up the volume a bit to get the same level w/ DTS as I did with DD. Noticed this especially on the LOTR films.
    With my B&K, this is no longer an issue at all. And the Oliphaunt charge is absolutely better in DTS, just as deep as DD, and even more accurate.
    As far as I know, there is no DTS mix of Episode I available as was suggested. The only DVD available has a DD track only, as it is obviously all about the THX on the Star Wars films, and Lucas does not offer DTS on THX DD DVDs, although there are some discs out there with the THX label for DD plus a DTS mix.
    Current System:

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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited June 2005
    I think that the "in theory" winner is DTS, hands down... but unfortunately it seems like a lot of the DTS mixes are half-assed after thoughts. You just hav eto give both a listen on each disc.
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by gregure
    I had an issue with DTS seeming to be at a lower volume on the Onkyo 701 as well. I think it may be an issue with Onkyo's DTS decoder.

    Well I have the amp and speakers, looks like the next major upgrade is a Pre-Amp. (months off at least) At least I have something to look forward to... :D

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by gregure
    As far as I know, there is no DTS mix of Episode I available as was suggested. The only DVD available has a DD track only, as it is obviously all about the THX on the Star Wars films, and Lucas does not offer DTS on THX DD DVDs, although there are some discs out there with the THX label for DD plus a DTS mix.

    You callin' me a liar??!! :D

    Lucas did make the entire pod race sequence in DTS (as well as other Star Wars scenes and Indiana Jones scenes, and dare I say Willow).

    And no, you can't buy them in the stores, but they were made, I've held them in my hand and watched them personally. Just because its "THX" doesn't mean it can't be DTS.

    Regards,
    PolkThug
    Never Forget
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,064
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by PolkThug
    You callin' me a liar??!! :D

    Lucas did make the entire pod race sequence in DTS (as well as other Star Wars scenes and Indiana Jones scenes, and dare I say Willow).

    Regards,
    PolkThug


    NOT ME !!:D ;)
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by Willow
    NOT ME !!:D ;)

    You mean that isn't you at the bottom?
    Never Forget
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,064
    edited June 2005
    crap you found me out !! since then I grew 3ft lost the bad hair and most importantly grew some B@lls.
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by Willow
    crap you found me out !! since then I grew 3ft lost the bad hair and most importantly grew some B@lls.
    but you're saying, you still can't act? :p

    Anyone else see the lil Willow guy during the Pod Race scene??? hahahaha
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,064
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by Toxis
    but you're saying, you still can't act? :p

    Anyone else see the lil Willow guy during the Pod Race scene??? hahahaha

    Right that's why I am now working in the underwriting Dept of an insurance comp.
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  • Meeks32
    Meeks32 Posts: 330
    edited June 2005
    You can buy THX demo dvd's that have a bunch of clips from different movies on them & one clip is the Pod race scene in DTS. They go for under $20 on ebay.
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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited June 2005
    :rolleyes: Almost every recent hollywood movie has a DTS sound track, because thousands of movie theaters have DTS equipment. It is just a question of whether the DTS track is transfered to the DVD version of the movie. Fox Home Video, frequently puts the DTS sound track on their DVDs, I give them two thumbs up icon14.gificon14.gif .
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited June 2005
    yeah, 99% of the movies are made in DTS but just not released on DVD in that format. Also, for theaters, movies are made in SDDS as well but that's not even a format available for home use. I hear some great things about it... but obviously have no clue what's what when IN the theater...
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited June 2005
    In reality, DD and DTS both suck, they are both compromises that only give us a portion of the total sound that is available.
    Never Forget
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,217
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by PolkThug
    In reality, DD and DTS both suck, they are both compromises that only give us a portion of the total sound that is available.

    This is why I'm still a 2-channel guy.

    :D;):p

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • MSALLA
    MSALLA Posts: 1,602
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by PolkThug
    In reality, DD and DTS both suck, they are both compromises that only give us a portion of the total sound that is available.

    So what is the best format?
    Michael


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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,879
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by heiney9
    This is why I'm still a 2-channel guy.

    :D;):p

    H9

    Your 2-channel is compressed just like the multi channel. You are still not getting the full resolution audio. If you are talking about DVD movies, you are just getting a downconverted version of the original DD or DTS.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by Toxis
    DTS adds 3db to the rears and 10db to the LFE. Not to mention it's less compressed so the overall SQ will be better. I have heard it's "hotter" but nothing to back that up. Just opinions.
    Toxis, the adding of dbs to the front and rears is I believe what people are referring to when they say it's hotter. I'd also be curious how many dbs are added to the lfe channel
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited June 2005
    Originally posted by Polkmaniac
    Toxis, the adding of dbs to the front and rears is I believe what people are referring to when they say it's hotter. I'd also be curious how many dbs are added to the lfe channel
    reread what I typed... nothing is added to the fronts or center.
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
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