biamping/setup speakers

firefighter

I have some questions that I hope somebody can help me out. I have the rti 12's for the mains, csi5 for the center, rti4's for the surrounds, and the psw505 for the subwoofer. Powering these is a Yamaha RXV2500 receiver. First off, I think my system sounds excellent but, as always there is always room for improvement it seems.:D One of my questions is will biamping the mains or/and other speakers benefit anything? If so what would be recommended as far as biamping them? Is it cost worthy to do?
My sub is powered by its own amp, some people say turn the volume all the way up on the sub and leave what the receiver sets it at during auto setup and others say turn the volume about half way only. Which is the correct way? My freq knob is all the way up so that the receiver can control that part.
I have plenty more questions but I think some of them will be answered by the questions above. Also, if anybody has somewhat the same setup as me and are happy with it I would like to know what all you did if you are willing to share it. :cool:

marker

First question is this, does the Yamaha RXV2500 have a bi-amp feature? I'm not familar with that receiver, but I know certian Pioneer models have this ability.

BTW, welcome to the board. It's good to see yet another NC homie here!

firefighter

marker thanks, I do beleive the receiver has a biamp feature.

marker

In that case I guess it wouldn't hurt anything to go ahead and try it and see how it does. Worst case scenerio, you can always put it back in standard configuration.

If your receiver has pre-outs though, I believe you would be better served getting some outboard amps. I don't know if they still have them or not, but ubid.com had a bunch of Audiosource Amp3 amps. They are bridgable into 400 watt monoblocks, and cheap. You could get 2 of them for less than $400 shipping and all.

I seriously considered this option myself for my RTi12 pair, but since I already had one NAD C270, it was cheaper (and probably better too) to just pick up another one and bridge them into 300 watt monoblocks.

Good luck!

firefighter

Thanks again marker, but I don't quite understand what you are talking about outboard amps. Is that like a 2 channels amp? Also, if I bought say 1 or 2 seperate amps, how would they be configured as far as what amp would drive which speakers? Is the cost of this be very beneficial as a huge difference in sound quality. Also I see that you own a couple svs subwoofers. I am thinking about trading my polk psw505 sub back in at tweeter for for a veloydyne. But I don't know which one. I would love to have a svs sub but they don't carry them.

cfrizz

Hi Firefighter, welcome!

On the back of your receiver you will find a section with connections that are labled Preouts. This is where you would hook up separate amplifiers to the receiver.

You can purchase anywhere from monoblocks to amplifiers that can handle 2,3,5 or 7 channels.

From what I have read, your RTI 12's could really use more power to sound their best. So at the very least, I would get a 200 watt 2 channel amplifier and let those drive your mains.

A good bang for the buck amp can be gotten from here.:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/bstock.html

Some other good ones:

Adcom
Rotel
Parasound
Acurus
carver
sunfire

Happy shopping.

Toxis

Originally posted by firefighter
My sub is powered by its own amp, some people say turn the volume all the way up on the sub and leave what the receiver sets it at during auto setup and others say turn the volume about half way only.

you need new people to talk to. You want to leave the sub at maybe 12 o'clock (or zero if it's numbered with a negative db side) and then let the receiver adjust it. That's probably how I'd start then start tweeking it from there to my own personal liking.

firefighter

cfrizz thanks for the advice, now as far as getting a 2 channels amp or monoblock you stated to let the seperate amp run the mains. Would it run all the speakers in the mains? What if I bought 2 2 channel amps along with my receiver and ran the surrounds and center off 1 amp, the sub and woofers in the mains to the other amp, and the tweeters and mids in the mains to the receiver? Would that work? I've heard alot of good things about outlaw and sunfire. BTW, what would a preamp do compared to a amp or receiver?

Toxis thanks, the sub has a volume knob (min-max). I have been setting it half way and the doing a autosetup and the receiver sets the sub at like -8 or -7 always. I either have to turn the knob up or move the slider in the receiver for the sub to 0 or so. I guess what I am trying to ask is does it matter where I tweak it from and does it matter where I set the knob at before the auto setup.

Toxis

if your receiver is turning it down that much, I'd probably turn the sub down a bit and get the receiver a little closer to 0. But that's me. I have my receiver at 0 and my sub is turned down about 6db.

firefighter

Wouldn't it be better (it seems this way) if I turned the vol. knob on the sub up maybe 3/4 instead of using the receiver to drive the sub and allow the sub to power itself and if I need more then turn the slider inside the receiver. I assume this is the way it works. Don't think I'm questioning you or doubting you it's just that I was thinking of this and thought I'd mention it.

Toxis

I could be completely wrong but here's how I see it. By turning down the receiver and not the sub, you are giving the sub a weaker signal to amplify (which in turn can cause distortion if it's straining to output a weak signal). But if you leave the receiver at 0 and turn down the sub, it's just not going to be pushing as much power but is getting a full signal.


again, I could be completely wrong but that's how my mind sees it.

TheReaper

Originally posted by firefighter
Wouldn't it be better (it seems this way) if I turned the vol. knob on the sub up maybe 3/4 instead of using the receiver to drive the sub and allow the sub to power itself and if I need more then turn the slider inside the receiver. I assume this is the way it works. Don't think I'm questioning you or doubting you it's just that I was thinking of this and thought I'd mention it.

I happen to agree with your logic. I have mine set so the receiver is at -5. which I have seen recommended on this board. I use my receiver when I want to temporarily adjust for what I am listening to. I use -10 when listening to music, and if I want more sub in a movie, I bump the receiver up a few notches.

Basic guidelines:

lower receiver setting + higher sub volume knob:

a) you need more volume to auto-trigger your sub
b) worse signal to noise ratio

higher receiver setting + lower sub volume knob:

a) less volume for auto-trigger
b) more potential for signal distortion

high receiver setting + full sub volume knob:

a) pontential for distortion
b) you probably need a more powerfull sub

firefighter

toxis and thereaper thanks for the input, I am completely confused now. Toxis, I can see what you are saying about having the receiver at 0, but why turn down the sub volume? Isn't this like putting the extra strain on my receiver because now it has to driver the sub and all my other speakers instead of the sub driving itself and saving more power to drive the mains, center, and rears? I see it as if I put the receiver on say -5 or so for the sub and the sub on 1/4 of the way(vol) then I would actually have to have a higher main vol. to activate the sub (bass). Now, if I put the sub at 1/2 way and leave the receiver alone at -5 I will have more bass at the same listening level only my amp inside the sub is pushing harder. Now, if I put the sub at 1/4 turn(vol) and turned the vol level for the sub inside the receiver to 0 I would have the same amount of listening vol as well the same amount of bass(lows I should say) only my receiver will be pushing harder and the amp inside the sub won't be working as hard. I think this would make the sound quality deteriorate due to the receiver now having to driver the sub and not just the mains,center, and rears. Now, lets say I turn the knob on the sub to 1/2 way and the receiver level for the sub to 0 or both to MAX. I now have a different kind of animal here. But again I am still pulling lots of power from the receiver and taking away power that could be driving the others. I could be wrong on all this and that is why I am asking but I am wrong please explain to me why? I would like to know why it is better to have it one way and not the other? I am mostly into HT and some music.
TheReaper, what is your sub turned to? Also, from what you wrote which do I want more "worse signal to noise ratio" or "more potential for signal distortion"? I think I'm going to keep the sub knob about 1/2 way and let the receiver adjust itself (which it will to about -7 or -8). Thanks guys

TheReaper

but why turn down the sub volume? Isn't this like putting the extra strain on my receiver because now it has to driver the sub and all my other speakers instead of the sub driving itself and saving more power to drive the mains, center, and rears?

I miss-interpreted your previous post. When you have a powered sub like the PSW505, there is no strain on your receiver, no matter how you set the volumes. The sub is always powered by its internal amplifier, and the receiver acts a pre-amplifier sending a low power signal to the sub (assuming you have it hooked up through LFE or pre-outs).

I thought you were talking about temporary adjustments to the sub volume. In which case I prefer using the receiver, because it is easier to return to a known setting, then using the volume knob on the sub.

TheReaper, what is your sub turned to?

My sub volume knob is turned to max (due to a volume robbing modification). I am close to needing a more powerful sub.

Also, from what you wrote which do I want more "worse signal to noise ratio" or "more potential for signal distortion"?

It depends, do you have problem with noise {humm, buzz, static from interference), or a problem with distortion (lack of definition, overdriving, droning). If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

I think I'm going to keep the sub knob about 1/2 way and let the receiver adjust itself (which it will to about -7 or -8).

Sounds good to me

firefighter

thanks everbody for your help.

bigsexy1

Congratulations on the 12s.

I would say not to biamp with the Yammie 2500 though. The 1400 or 2400 didn't do too well on some bench tests power measurements.

As others here have said, get outboard seperate power amps.