Choosing a receiver...

jet2001

I have a 5.1 surround sound system that consists of RTi4's as mains, CSi3 as center, and R15's as surrounds. I am currently using a Sony STR-DA835 to run them. The Sony unit is 5 years old and it's time for an upgrade.

I'm looking for something around $500. I have narrowed it down to two options (but I'm willing to hear advice if these options are not the best):

Denon AVR-2105 or Harman Kardon AVR 335

Could I get some recommendations or some personal testimonies on these two receivers? I'm finding them online for about the same price, they have almost the same features...I just want to make the right decision and an educated decision on which one will push my Polks to the best of their ability in this price range.

thanks,

-John

Willow

my choice, HK

ND13

I'll second the HK. The best deals I've seen the the HK's were at J&R. Just recently they had them all on sale with free shipping. You might even be able to go up to the 435.

The Denon is very nice also.

Both of your choices are very popular around here. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

Ricardo

How do the 55W from the HK compare with the 90W from the Denon?

Willow

from what I hear HK is very conservative, while the denon may stretch the truth a tadd.

Pablo

I mentioned this to someone looking for a new DVD player. If you don't mind refurbished stuff, you may be able to go to an older Denon 3802 or 3803 for about $600. Just make sure you go to the anuthorized dealer (go to denon.com for a list), or they won't honor the warranty.

thehaens@cox.net

My buddy has a HK and it is a nice set up. Personnaly like the ES stuff that Sony puts out. The form factor is easy for me. I hate reading manuals. I couldn't really comment on their power rating, as I use separate amps, (use the sony as a pre/pro). But I haven't had any problems with the Sony...You can get many of the Sony products on the cheap if you buy last years model(s)

Teejai

I love my HK 325. It has no problem driving my system and sounds great with the Polk RTi speakers.

If you don't mind a refurb check out the http://www.harmanaudio.com webstore. You could actually pick up the 525 for less than $500 which a great deal. Anyway good luck!

aaharvel

Jet I have your exact front setup- rti-4's and csi3 with sides and rears with fxi3's and f/x300i's respectively. I have H/K and love it. From personal experience, I say H/K but I bet the Denon would be just as good.
If you prefer warm sound and focus on movies AND music (as I do) go with H/K. I bought a 235 and love it. If you like neutral sound, and it's primarily for movies, go with Denon. The rti-4's and csi3's are neutral sounding for the most part- so take that for what it's worth.

Although the Denon & H/K are light years above Sony (and imo es) The H/K has a little more current in it's amp stages than Denon. To me, this helps on musical playback and that warm sound I was referring to earlier. The H/K will probably be rated more conservatively than the Denon- but either choice would be great. When I bought my H/K 235, I was looking at Denon as well. In the end it all depends on if you like warm or neutral sound, and if your system is home theater only or home theater and music.

Good luck.

jet2001

I'd use it for 85% HT and 15% music.

The more I read about the H/K, the more I think this one is the one for me. I have personal experience with Denon though, with a PA and DJ rig and was extremely pleased with its sound and user friendly hookups.

I do like a warm sound and it'll be something different than my bright Sony. But now that a few people have mentioned that, I think I'll need to audition the receiver to make sure I'll like it.

I know CC carries H/K, does anybody know of another store that carries H/K that has a better listening environment? Fry's?

thanks again for your input...

aaharvel

jet- go to circuitcity and listen to the H/K, but don't buy it there.

www.jandr.com has the hk 235 for $349 new. including tax and shipping. They're also an authorized dealer so the warranty won't be voided.

Circuit City sells the thing for $500 as does most everyone else.
$350 is a straight up deal on that thing.

ND13

You should probably consider MSkeezer's HK 330 in the FM.

I also agree with aaharvel, I've been pointing out that J&R site for HK's for a month now. Best deals anywhere on new HK's.

And yes, I use an HK receiver, but a stereo not av.

shiu

Originally posted by aaharvel

Although the Denon & H/K are light years above Sony (and imo es) The H/K has a little more current in it's amp stages than Denon. To me, this helps on musical playback and that warm sound I was referring to earlier. The H/K will probably be rated more conservatively than the Denon- but either choice would be great.

I am sure there are many who prefer the Sony ES sound. I traded in my DA4ES, but I wouldn't say any HK models below the 52X or 63X necessarily sound better. It really depends a lot on your speakers too, and your personal liking.

HK rates their output conservatively, and the AVR335 may in fact has a little more current capability than the 2105, but I doubt that's the reason for it to sound "warm". A 15 WPC tube amp could probably make warmer sound than a 55 WPC HK unit can, but without sending too much current into a speaker. HK's high current capability is based on it's instantaneous rating, not continuous. On continuous basis, same watts into the same impedance (4,8 ohms) will get you the same current (P=IXIXR, P=V*V/R

Both units represent good value for the money, its a tough choice, but hopefully Jet won't base his choice on things like which one has more power or current (not much difference between the two), but rather on the features, look, sound quality (to his taste), the remote, and their perceived reliability rating.

Airplay355

I have a Marantzsr7200 for sale for $300. Just lettin you know since you are looking at receivers. PM me if you are interested.

jet2001

I auditioned both the H/K and the Denon (H/K at Fry's and Denon at Tweeter). It was a nice audition because they sell Polk and I was able to hear the receivers out of the same speakers I have in my house.

I was hoping that this audition would solve a few of my problems. I did not, it created more issues. I enjoyed listening to both receivers. The H/K has a warm sound that everyone is talking about and the sound filled the listening room nicely. I was impressed with the H/K's sound. But the features of the 335 was not on par with what I want. I does upconvert, but only to S-Video. I'd have to go up to the 435 to get upconversion to component....which is a bit out of my price range. It has the ez set up which is nice, but again the 435 has the ex set up and ezEQ which is a great feature as well.

The Denon was also pleasing to my ears. It has a very neutral sound, much like the sound that comes from the Sony I have now...yet the difference in power was noticable even to my wife. The Denon upconverts to component, which is a plus. It has the mic for easy set up, but the EQ is still a manual function. I was impressed with the sound and features of this receiver and between the two, I believe the Denon is the best buy for me.

However, I then went home and watched a movie on my old Sony and questioned my motives on why I'm replacing it. I know many don't like Sony and it's sound, but for the space that I'm in right now, it sounds pretty darn good. Are the other brands going to be that much better?

I don't know. I'm back at square one and I think I'll take a few months to research and add to my savings and see if I could look into others in the $1,000 range.

Airplay...I'm curious about your Marantz. How does a 6 channel receiver have the multi-zone capabilities? I've tried to read up on it, but haven't found much.

aaharvel

hey jet- that's awesome how you got to comapre both receivers with the same speakers. I was fortunate to be able to do that as well- and came away with basically the same conclusions that you did.

It sounds like you would be better off with the Denon- IMO they sound just as good as H/K - and your'e right - they do have more features.

Also- if you like your sony and you think it sounds good- then maybe you should not upgrade? What sounds good to you is the most important thing.

cfrizz

If after all you went through with auditioning to then come home and realize you are still quite satisfied with your Sony, tells me that you just want to satisfy your upgrade itch.

Buy some more movies & cd's, dvd-a' & sacds! Enjoy them on the equipment you already have & like.

It will cost a lot less in the long run.:)

Ricardo

Originally posted by cfrizz
If after all you went through with auditioning to then come home and realize you are still quite satisfied with your Sony, tells me that you just want to satisfy your upgrade itch.

Buy some more movies & cd's, dvd-a' & sacds! Enjoy them on the equipment you already have & like.

It will cost a lot less in the long run.:)

aaaaah...upgrade itch....... I definitely suffer from this once in a while.....

jet2001

I think you hit the nail on the head as well...the only thing I think I'm missing out on is; 1. more power and 2. Dolby Pro-Logic IIx. Dolby Digital and DTS tracks sound quite pleasing from the old Sony, but while watching T.V. in Pro-logic...it's missing something. My wife and I watch a lot of movies on HBO and the other pay channels and the sound coming from what is called 'digital cable' is utter crap. I don't know if the cable receiver is to blame or if I'm holding Pro-logic to a higher standard than it should be.

But, I'm still very pleased with the sound from DVD's and CD's. So, I'm at a fickle point in this venture...thanks for listening.

shiu

Jet, if your Sony has pre-outs, and you just need more power, you could buy a two channel amp to take some load off the Sony. I used to have a sony 4ES with a 200 WPC Adcom and it worked great.

jet2001

No pre-outs...I guess that's another thing I'm missing out on with the old sony...

Ok, here's a question...From what I'm reading, we're going into an HDTV era. I don't have a T.V. that is HD capable and neither is any of my a/v equipment...should I start making this transition to a/v equipment that is HD capable? or should I buy what is available now and expect to upgrade in a couple of years?

be honest, just looking to diologue a bit...

Airplay355

Jet - I'm pretty sure it uses the two L&R surround channels to power a different source. However it does have a B set of speaker outputs so it might be those. If you are really curious I can dig out the manual and rear up on it. But it is definitely a multi zone receiver. You use the OSD to change the volume of the other source. Here are the specs.

* 105 watts x 6 channels at 8 ohms
* Dolby Digital® (AC-3)5.1/6.1, DTS® 5.1/6.1 Compatible, Dolby Pro Logic®, Pro Logic® II (Movie, Music)
* Circle Surround® 5.1
* Preset Modes: Hall, Stadium, Matrix, Movie
* All Discrete Amplifier Stages
* 192kHz/24-bit D/A Converters
* 6 Channel Stereo Mode
* Speaker A/B
* DC Triggers
* Component Video Switching
* On Screen Display
* Source Direct
* Delay Time
* 30 Presets
* Manual Station Naming
* Display Dimmer
* Timer/Clock
* Headphone Jack
* Rec Out (Source)

INPUT/OUTPUTS

* Video
* Composite
* In (VCR1, DSS/VDR2, TV, DVD, AUX) : 5
* Out (Monitor, VCR1, DSS/VCR2) : 3
*

---

* S-Video
* In (VCR1, DSS/VCR2, TV, DVD, AUX): 5
* Out (Monitor, VCR1, DSS/VCR2): 3
*

---

* Component (In/Out): 2/1
* Preamplifier Outputs: 7(Channel)
* Front (L/R), Rear (L/R), Center, Surround Back, Sub-Woofer
* Direct Inputs: 7(Channel)
*

---

* Audio
* Analog In: 8 (CD, Tape, CDR/MD, VCR1, DSS/VDR2, TV, DVD, AUX)
* Analog Out: 4 (Tape, CDR/MD, VCR1, DSS/VDR2)
* Digital In: 4 (2 Optical, 2 Coaxial)
* Digital out: 2 (1 Optical, 1 Digital)

SPECIFICATIONS

* Amplifier
* Power Output (8 Ohm, F, C, S): 105W/105W/105W
* Signal-To-Noise: 105 dB
* Frequency Range: 20–20kHz
* Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): 0.05%
*

---

* Tuner AM band
* Frequency Range AM: 520-1710kHz
* Usable Sensitivity Loop: 400 uV/m
* Distortion: 400Hz, 30% Mod. 0.5%
* Alternate Channel Selectivity: +/- 18kHz 60 dB
* Signal-To-Noise (MW/LW): 50 dB
*

---

* Tuner FM band
* Frequency Range FM: 87.5-108.0MHz
* Sensitivity (Mono/Stereo) IHF: 1.8 uV/16.4 dBf
* Alternate Channel Selectivity: +/- 400kHz 60 dB
* Signal-To-Noise (Mono/Stereo): 76/72dB
* Image Rejection: 98MHz 70 db
* Tune Output Level: 1kHz, ±75kHz Dev 800mV

GENERAL

* Color: Black
* Front Panel: Metal
* Remote Control: RC7200SR (Programmable, Learning)
* Dimensions in Inches (W x H x D): 17 5//16 " x 6 1/2 " x 15 11/16 "
* Weight 32.4 lbs

jet2001

Thanks Airplay!

What are your opinions on reconditioned receivers?

Ecost.com has the Denon AVR 1905 for $259. It's got the same insides as the 2105 minus 10 wpc and the microphone for ezset-up...which I could live without both. Losing 10 wpc is no biggie because the 1905 has pre-outs and I don't mind setting up the room by hand. With this price it's almost a win-win situation....but I'd like to hear some opinions on reconditioned products.

FYI-Ecost.com is an authorized dealer of Denon, so I'd get whatever warranty is offered, which is another plus.

ND13

Don't be afraid of refurbs. They go through extensive testing after being repaired, probably more than bfore they were released initially. I've owned several refurb items, from audio/video to appliances, and have never had a single issue.

jet2001

I'm taking a chance on a referb. Ubid.com had a Denon AVR-885s for a price that was under my budget by quite a bit. I really liked the 885's sister, the AVR 2105 and I hope I'm going to be just as happy with this one.

I really appreciated all of your input and as a fellow Polkie, I'll stick around and hopefully help someone out.

thanks again,

-John

ND13

Originally posted by jet2001
I'm taking a chance on a referb. Ubid.com had a Denon AVR-885s for a price that was under my budget by quite a bit. I really liked the 885's sister, the AVR 2105 and I hope I'm going to be just as happy with this one.

I really appreciated all of your input and as a fellow Polkie, I'll stick around and hopefully help someone out.

thanks again,

-John

You should be pleased with your choice.

Airplay355

Honestly, my refurb came to me with a cracked surround board, but it was under warranty so it was fixed my Marantz and didn't cost me a penny. I havent had any other problems with my receiver. Refurb is nice, but I think I'd look into used gear next time instead of refurbished. The price is usually better with used and if you find the right person, it might be in better condition too.