HELP!!!!!! I Am Clueless About This

BrentMcGhee

Hey all you veterans of car audio out there, I hope you can help me out here. I am very experienced in the home audio side of things but I just recently started to look at getting a nice polk setup in my car but after looking at all of the equipment I need I realized that I have no idea (well I think I might) how to hook this stuff up or even if I am looking at the right stuff.

I am not looking to go all out on a rig for my car, I will probably spend about a grand everything included.

I can already feel that this is going to be a long post (probably have to split it up into several smaller ones) but I hope you will stick with me and help me out.... it would be really appreciated.

The equipment that I am looking at is;
1 clarion head unit
4 Polk 6.5's for the front doors and the rear deck
1 8" Polk sub with q-logic box
1 80w X4 profile amp for the 6.5's
1 200w X1 profile amp for the Polk sub
(I can give model numbers and stuff if you guys will need them)

My first question is what kind of other stuff am I going to need that I probably have no idea about (I am getting the bracket and the wiring harness for the head unit)

As for the hook up I am completely clueless.... I would like to replace all of the speaker wire to all speakers. The car is an 86' and wiring looks to be in very bad condition especially the terminations on the end, plus it looked to be pretty bad wire from the start. Can normal speaker wire be used for this purpose?

As for the amps..... how exactly do I hook them up.... especially to power? (like I said I have no idea what am doing)

Then for all of the crossovers.... where am I setting what freq. to send to which speakers... is this done on the head unit or on the amp, but then there are two amps..( damn it... what the hell) I am probably making this a lot harder then it needs to be, I am so confused.

Now... just so you know where I stand this is kind of the way that I am guessing it all goes together. Please tell me where I am going wrong.
The head unit has two line level outs... (Right/left) so I am planning on using a y adapter of both outputs so I can send a full range line level signal to both the 4-channel amp and my sub amp. On the 4-channel amp I would turn the high pass filter off and the low pass filter on and set it probably about 80hz to 100hz so I don’t send those low freq. to the door and rear deck speaks. Then on my sub amp turn the low pass filter off and the high pass filter on (set it to where ever the low pass on my other amp is at) so I only send the low freq. to the sub.

But then for the power I still have no idea where to get that from for the amps.... do they just plug onto the battery or what.???

Please Help Me......

exalted512

http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/531337/5
hopefully thatll help your amps question. Yes, the power does go straright to your battery. For a wiring kit, look no place but www.knukonceptz.com for everything you need.

First off, id like to know the model numbers, or even better a link to the amps youre thinking about getting.

Second, Id skip the rear speakers. Exactly what kind of car is this? If youre listening only to music(not movies or stuff like that), it is recorded in 2 channel. Plus, when you go to a concert, do you have speakers in the back of you? With the money you save, buy some momo components instead of the DBs or something like that. Rear speakers will actually hurt your sound quality because the sound hits you at different times.

Crossover frequencies:
80Hz LP for subs
70 Hz HP for front components
if you still do want rear speakers, id cross them over at 1kHz or so.

I prefer to adjust the crossovers by my headunit because I can change everything easily.

if theres anything i missed, let me know
-Cody

neomagus00

h'okay... you've actually got it all right, pretty much . clarion isn't a big player in the HU (headunit) game, which doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad choice, but choosing a pioneer, alpine, or kenwood (my personal preferences are in that order) may serve you better.

from the headunit's line level outs (preouts) you'd run a good RCA to the 4-channel amp; imo, you get what you pay for in RCAs, some would disagree.

the profile clarus amps have preouts, so you'd run another RCA, albeit a much shorter and not as high-quality one (no need) to the sub amp.

from each amp you'd run speaker wire - car speaker wire is quite flexible and has a ton of insulation, i'd go with 14 gauge for your application. it's fairly cheap, but don't go with the rock-bottom stuff.

so now all you need is power to the amps. to do this, you grab 18" or less of 4-gauge power cable (rather more expensive than speaker wire, but nothing painful), use a vice or hammer to stick a ring terminal on the end, stick that end on the battery's positive terminal, and put a fuse on the other end of that 18" or less cable. the fuse value is calculated by adding up the fuse values of both amps, then rounding up.

from the other side of the fuse box, you run more 4-gauge power cable to a distribution block placed near the amps (i'm assuming here that the amps will be placed near each other). from this d-block you run 4- or 8- gauge power cable (preferably 4-) to each amp's +12V input. from each amp's ground, you run the SAME GAUGE wire as the input to a second d-block, and then some more 4-gauge from the d-block to a ring terminal, which is then screwed down to bare metal on the chassis of the car (after sanding/filing to make sure it's bare metal). a seatbelt bolt works well.

to summarise the power feed:
battery+ -> cable of 18" or less -> fuse -> d-block -> 12V of amps
then, ground of amps -> d-block -> chassis

BrentMcGhee

Hey thanks guys.... the stuff is slowly starting to make sense.

exalted512's statement about not using rear speakers makes perfect sense..... i had thought about that at one time becasue of those same reasons. (my music rig at home doesnt use rear speakers so why should the one in my car) but i just figured there was some reason that i did not know that i had/should have speakers in the rear deck.

I guess now i can take the money i was putting towards those and put them elsewhere now then. I think will go with a component system for the front speakers then like the Polk Audio MMC6500

I will go ahead and look at some other head units then clarion...... i just kinda threw that one out there but now that i went back and looked at the specs one thing really stood out to me (only a 1 bit dac!!! what is that about.... is that common for car audio or is this just a really bad hu? Even the cheapest cd players for home have 16bit)

As for the amps... i have know i have heard the profile names before but i do not know if they are good or not. Here are the links to the two amps i am looking at
2 Channel Amp
Sub Amp

Opinions on them??

Then one more question... sorry, i am probably asking dumb questions, but as for hooking the amps up to my battery, if i get a wiring kit does that have the fuses and the d blocks in them or do i have to buy them seperatley? Also will i need to get a special kind of battery to do this. I already have to get a new battery because as it is right now, if i leave my door open for than 5 min my battery is completely dead:). So i figured if there is a better battery for this type of thing then others than now is the time to get it.

thanks in advance again guys....

neomagus00

profile is a fine company, they make some of the best bang-for-the-buck amps out there. the ones you've chosen may underpower the system you're looking at. if you choose component speakers (which would be a good choice), you'll need an amp closer to 150x2, but the 200x1 amp is a good one for the sub.

on the DACs... car people are retarded here, i have no idea wtf they mean by a 1-bit DAC (this happens a lot, they'll say something like 16bit X 1bit and i dunno what that extra 1 bit is for)... rest assured that every HU in existence is 16-bit or more... it kinda has to be to play CDs...

depending on the wiring kit you get, it may come with a fuse (check it to make sure it's okay on the power rating) but it probably will not come with the 2 d-blocks you need. they're just big hunks of metal, though, they're cheap too. and there are audio batteries out there - namely the optima yellow top - but unless you'll regularly be playing the system with the car off, you won't want one (they're easily twice the cost of a regular battery).

BrentMcGhee

Ok i think i have finalized my product list. I switched over to an alpine head and went from a got a 2 channel amp instead of a 4 because i am not using rear speakers any more....

I have a feeling after i get all the stuff and i start to install it am going to be right back on here witch questions...

Thanks

AustinKP

No need to get a super-expensive battery for a basic system. You can get a Duralast Gold from Autozone for $75. It works very well. From their website: "*** 610 COLD CRANKING AMPS (760 CRANKING AMPS) ***
-> 3 YEAR FREE REPLACEMENT <-"
It also has a 7 year pro-rated warranty.
A couple weeks ago, I went night fishing with a couple friends and had my stereo cranked for over 7 hours before my battery went dead.

exalted512

a few things wrong with what neo said
1. the fuse by the battery does not have anything to do with the amps, only the size of the power wire
With the power youre drawing, you can use 8 awg safely, but honestly, I'd use 4awg. You'll need somewhere around 100-150A fuse by the battery. It doesnt matter what size between there, just whatever is available/cheapest.

2. Clarion is a very good head unit, especially lately.

3. Not all head units are at least 16 bit. Alpine for example is not. All, even there $500 models, have regulated 1-bit DACs, which is why I recommend Pioneer or Eclipse.

I'd also like to add a red top is much better for systems unless like neo said, youre playing your stereo with the power off. I have Energizer max's from Pep Boys which were like $75 for the ones with side terminals. 875CCA/1000CA

You might want to check out getting a 2 channel for your sub as well. It'll sound better and be cheaper. For a single sub setup, I always recommend 2-channels.
-Cody

BrentMcGhee

y a 2 channel amp for a single sub?

neomagus00

correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems that for a given level of amplification, the a/b technology found in 2-channel amps is cheaper per watt than the d-class mono amps.

-the fuse by the battery should have 4-gauge on both sides cause if you have 8-gauge on the battery side of the fuse you're unnecessarily restricting your current flow, which is the whole point of using 4- instead of 8-.

-from pioneer's spec sheet for their $700 P960: "1-bit D/A Converter : 24-bit Burr Brown"... the piece of equipment is called a "1-bit DAC", that's the physical chip... this howstuffworks article is mildly helpful...

exalted512

Yes, a/b's are cheaper. They are also cleaner. That is why I recommend them. But you have to have a single voice coil 4 ohm sub or a dual vc 2 or 8 ohm sub.

Who said anything about having 4awg on one side and 8 on the other??

Yes, thats pioneer. Go to alpine1.com. The piece of equipment is called 1 bit DAC, but alpine has actual 1 bit dac's. I emailed them and asked, feel free to do the same.

-Cody

neomagus00

Originally posted by exalted512
the fuse by the battery does not have anything to do with the amps, only the size of the power wire
With the power youre drawing, you can use 8 awg safely, but honestly, I'd use 4awg. You'll need somewhere around 100-150A fuse by the battery. It doesnt matter what size between there, just whatever is available/cheapest.

i perhaps misunderstood this paragraph?

and there's no way to have an 'actual' 1-bit DAC that plays music... you need at least 2^16 samples per second (ie 16 bits) to get the full 20-20 spectrum... that's the frequency resolution... the volume resolution, that is, the number of discrete steps between +1 and -1, is, convieniently enough, also 2^16, or 65536. if you had a real 1-bit DAC you'd have the ability to play a 2 Hz or less note. at 1 volume level (on).

MacLeod

Eclipse has 1 bit DAC's as well. Dont think anyone would consider them to be crappy.

I dont understand the whole 1 bit, 40 bit, 500 bit thing but I consider to be as about as important as THD and SNR ratings on amps. Pretty much irrelevent.

I prefer my 1 bit Alpine much more to my previous 24 bit Sony.

exalted512

i gave you an explanation in another thread...
-Cody

MacLeod

Oh, dear me. Im sorry. Sometimes I just dont pay attention. :rolleyes:

Either way, Ill stick with my flimsy 1 bit Alpine.