The Best Hard Rock Band?
Comments
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Guess I better put a deadline for the cd. Let's say.....Friday the 10th by 5:30 central.
Let's not forget to tell why you're voting for that particular band/artist. This isn't just for fun, but also to educate us on some bands/artists we might have overlooked in the past or have never heard of. The winner doesn't have to pick a band/artist that I agree with, just intrigue me enough to want to give 'em a listen to.
Some of the newer groups , like Godsmack or Three Doors Down will also qualify as Hard Rock."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
Come on ND13, you cant tell me the Dead didnt rock. I agree that a lot of what they did was on the folk side but when they rocked live, they really rocked. Check out almost any live One More Saturday Night from any show in the 70s.
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First of all, I totally agree with most of you about Zeppelin. Aside from maybe the Beatles, they're the only group I can listen to almost all of their songs without a complaint... in fact I can only think of two or three off the top of my head that I do'nt like (like, "The Crunge") whereas I co uld probably name 50 that I love. They are what hard rock is all about.
Some other considerations - I would say Aerosmith should be put up there. THe Jimi Hendrix Experience, however short-lived they were... they just rocked. The Yardbirds, or any of Eric Clapton's early bands (Cream, Derek and the Dominoes, etc) deserve mention.
And speaking of southern-type rock, ZZ Top could rock occasionally. "La Grange" is like one of my favorite guitar songs ever.
Two other things - for some reason I cannot STAND Rush. It's like poison to my ears. I respect their musical talent, but the sound (mostly due to Geddy Lee) is just... not good to me. People who put them into the same class as the likes of Zeppelin... well, taste is truly an odd t hing
And I am also occasionally into the dead, and whiel they COULD rock, I would DEFINITELY say they are not in any way a "hard rock" band, and even if they WERE, there's no way they're at the top of the list. They're more of a philosophy than a band anyways If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
Originally posted by gmorris
I'm sorry Jstas, and I mean no disrespect, but that statement is just plain crazy and wrong. I can understand your point of saying Creed was influential in a time when Grunge was the biggest thing, but to say Creed is somehow responsible for those bands, especially Audioslave, is just ridiculous. I'm sure you know who the members of Audioslave are, and to say those homos known as Creed have anything to do with Audioslaves **** KICKING style of music (the first album, not the disappointing second) is insane.
I'm sorry but I can't respond to this. It's rather mean spirited and totally missed the point of my original statement. I never said that Creed was the source of Audioslave and so on and so forth. I said that Creed was the band that made people stop a listen to REAL rock and roll. If they didn't, we'd still be suffering the likes of Limp Bizkit clones and more crap from the teeny boopers.
I don't really care for the fanboy statements like "...Audioslaves **** KICKING style of music (the first album, not the disappointing second) is insane..." and I do know who is in Audioslave. A name can make things happen but usually, real talent sticks around. So a group of names doesn't make a band. A group of talented individuals that work well together make a band. That's why you get bands like Audioslave and Velvet Revolver. Both bands have talent that can headline a venue all by themselves but they play well together.
Some less mainstream artists that might intrigue would be
Steve Vai
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Crosby, Stills and Nash
Neil Young
Blue Oyster Cult
Dire Straits
Janis Joplin
Police
Santana
Steve Miller Band
Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers
ZZ Top
Some newer ones like
Bush
Lenny Kravitz
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Kenny Wayne Shepherd
Some more obscure, modern ones
Default
Seven Mary Three
Sponge
Silverchair
Sugar Ray
Presidents of the United States of America
Wilco
I'm sure there are plenty others that I can think of. Those are just some food for thought. So far it seems that the only band everyone knows of is Zepplin.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
LOL, I woulda put money on Jstas taking that post personally / too seriously. Why can't we bet on these things? I could be a billionnaire.
Anyways, you list a lot of good bands in your post Jstas, BUT more than half of them could in no way be considered "hard rock" -- I mean, Sugar Ray? Yeah, he really wails on the guitar. And I LOVE CSN, but there's no way they're clumped into a hard rock category either.
And while the bands you list are all "intriguing" as you say, ND13 was asking who we thought was the BEST. Just because everyone listed Zeppelin doesn't mean that that's the only band everyone knows, it means that it's pretty much generally agreed upon that they are the best in the genre (at least among those who've posted). It's tough to call any band created in the last few years the "best" because they haven't really proven themselves enough to be considered better than those that have been around for 30 years.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
Good points from Bobman and Jstas. Let's do try to keep this fun and not attack anyone's opinions. I meant for this to open up some alternative avenues to go down for some music.
Outlander, I have seen the Dead a few times and I still haven't made a decision on whether they rocked or jammed. To me there's a difference. Give me some time on this one, when I get home I listen to some live bootlegs I have, if I can find my cassette deck.
Bobman, I know that to some Geddy Lee's voice can get annoying, but I don't just listen to the lyrics. Musically speaking, they're just about as talented as it gets.
Finally someone mentioned ZZ TOP, and SRV.
Give us reasons why I or anyone else should give your favorite a listen to."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
If the Grateful Dead is worthy of consideration then Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young are on the list too. They were a far better band.
As far as Sugar Ray goes, you can't take the chart topper hits that the teenagers listen to all the time as an accurate sampling of the body of work for a particular artist. Why not listen to thier entire album and then tell me if they are rockers or crooners? Another good example of such is the Goo Goo Dolls. They have a few mainstream hits that all the teenage girls ate up and shot them to the top of the charts. However, the Goo Goo Dolls majority of thier body of work is Punk Rock. They have had 3 albums that have hit mainstream popularity. Take a look at the albums prior to 1995's chart topper "A Boy Named Goo" and they have several albums that are very much not like what most people know them for. You can't take one or two mainstream songs and take them as being indicative of the full body of an artist's work.
As far as why you should go and listen to ZZ Top and Stevie Ray Vaughn? Well, for one thing, ZZ Top isn't rock and roll. They are blues. Hardcore Texas style blues. They just hit the mainstream through a quirk. Somebody put one of thier songs in a movie and BAM! they took off like a shot. Still, they are worthy of a listen because even if you think they suck, they are a fairly unique sound and thier influence can be heard in not only alot of rock music (including Van Halen) to alot of modern country music. Talented guys with a knack for arranging music and stunning guitar solos.
Stevie Ray Vaughn is worthy of a listen because the guy has magic fingers on a fret board. Hands down he is one of the most accomplished artists out there on the guitar and it's a shame that more people don't listen to him.
The others, all I can say is go listen if you haven't yet. Songs you might have heard on the radio don't count because they are not indicative and often not the best tracks from each artist.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
That's what I meant. Though you had put CSN, not CSNY. IMO, two different sounds."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
Trying to clasify what is or is not hard rock is a difficult thing IMO. In their day Cream, The Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, etc were about as hard rock as it got. But then LZ and other groups came along and played "harder" thus turning the older bands into just plain rock. Then Metallica, Slayer, etc came along and turned LZ into just plain ol' rock. And the cycle just keeps continuing.Setup:
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Originally posted by Spawndn72
Trying to clasify what is or is not hard rock is a difficult thing IMO. In their day Cream, The Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, etc were about as hard rock as it got. But then LZ and other groups came along and played "harder" thus turning the older bands into just plain rock. Then Metallica, Slayer, etc came along and turned LZ into just plain ol' rock. And the cycle just keeps continuing.
True, but it's fun trying. That's why I never knock other people's opinions. Noone can really say they're an expert on this subject without looking like an **** in doing so. My objective is to open some closed minds, when it comes to different bands/artist of this extremely diversified genre. I for one like to discover/uncover something I might have missed."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
I guess this depends on how you measure who is the 'best'
1 - IF we're talking about musicianship, then Dream Theater wins this, followed closely by Rush and a couple other groups, followed by a multitude of other groups.
With Dream Theater, just break down some their songs musically..very complex chord structures. Alot of people don't realize this, but alot of their music is based on really odd chords and amazing combinations of those chords. It's not that these are any harder to play in terms of this chord is harder to play than that one, but these janky chords are very hard to improvise on top of. I can sit here all day and improv on some major and minor chords, but when you start throwing in things like augmented 13th chords and wierd variation of minor chords layed on top of a melodic minor scale...that ****'s hard! This means that with DT, you've got a gathering of some of the best musicians in the world. Mike Portnoy is one of the best drummers alive today (probably the best there is in the rock world, maybe bettered a little by some guys in other genres like Carter Beauford, Stewart Copelan, Dennish Chambers, etc). Jordan Rudess is the best keyboard/piano player in the genre I'm aware of, and he's also a great classical pianist from what I hear. John Petrucci isn't the best guitarist alive by any means, but he's one of the better ones around today, and falls only slightly short of the likes of Steve Vai and Joe Satriani. It's one thing to have a band with a premier musician...it's another thing altogether to have a band full of them. Led Zepplin is in the category also, with having Jimmy and John Bonham in the same group. Anyone who hasn't listened to Dream Theater owes it to themself to do so.
And let's don't forget Rush either. Neil Peart is one of the better drummers around and has been for a long time (although he did stink it up on that Buddy Rich Tribute project though didn't he). And they work really well together as a group and sound great. That guy's voice is probably the single most drawback to their music for most people.
2 - But most people won't define this in terms of musicianship. If we're talking about influence on the industry, then a group like Dream Theater isn't even an afterthought. Here we get to groups like The Rolling Stones, the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zepplin, and let's not forget about Chicago. Basically, there are quite a few groups who fit into the group...but we all know who the real winners in this category are - groups like Led Zepplin who not only influenced music, but changed the face of rock altogether. I'm not a big Elvis fan, but can't deny his influence on our music and music culture...
3 - Maybe 'best' is defined based on creativity, or originality. IF that's the case, we look back at Elvis, The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zepplin, Styx, and others. All of these created their own sound, none were just a rebirth of something already done. They're not thought of as innovative or original now...but they were very much that in their respective day.
My point is, it's difficult to say who the 'best' or even who's my favorite...
But, if I had to pick a 'best' I'd probably choose Led Zepplin because they seem to fit into all the criteria above. No matther which criteria you choose to define your best band, they're almost certainly going to be one of the first bands mentioned in every area. They've got it all: musicianship, creativity, influence, attitude, and something we don't see much with bands today...longevity. Hell, they're 35 years old and we're all still talking about them. They've got a timeless character that not many groups share. -
RUSH!
As far as Zepplin....I always wanted to challange Jimmy Page to see if he could possibly play the same thing twice.
pair of Kimber Kables (any model) say's he can't!
"she had the body of Venus, with arms." -
I'd bet that he could if he wanted. His style is very improvised...that's what he's all about. But you can't be that good at improvising and have that much dexterity without being an awesome guitarist. I don't know specifically, but I'd say he's had some classical training, just based on some of the progressions and scales I've heard him play.Originally posted by ninerbj
RUSH!
As far as Zepplin....I always wanted to challange Jimmy Page to see if he could possibly play the same thing twice.
pair of Kimber Kables (any model) say's he can't!
So do this mean that if I can find him playing the same thing twice on two different occasions that I get some Kimbers...what may almost be worth the time:D -
Hell no!! You bring that Wanna-be to my house!
If he can repeat the same lick twice...you got a deal! Hell, with Jimmy...I would settle for Wipeout."she had the body of Venus, with arms." -
OK, so it's obvious you don't like Jimmy Page...Originally posted by ninerbj
Hell no!! You bring that Wanna-be to my house!
If he can repeat the same lick twice...you got a deal! Hell, with Jimmy...I would settle for Wipeout.
So let me get this straight. If I can find versions of a song (i.e. studio and live) where he plays the same lick twice...I get some Kimbers right? I'll pm you my address tonight... -
And FWIW, he's not really one of my favorite guitarists, and there are many I'd rank above him, but one thing I've always liked about his style it's melodic.
Listen to the solo just in Stairway - it's not great technically or anything, but it's very melodic.
Someone like Steve Vai is a far better player, but he's more about technical ability than melody, so it's nice to have people like Page and Clapton around... -
If we are going to talk about influential guitarist there's only one that spawned several others! If it weren't for Hendrix there wouldn't even be a SRV!! Stevie, while he had his own style copped most of his licks from Hendrix and if it wasn't for Hendrix Leo Fender might never have sold any Strats to anyone except country players!! And that's a fact..after the release of "Are You Experienced" Strat sales skyrocketed! I can't think of another 60's guitarist that influenced his generation more!!
Creed, Creed!! You have got to be kidding me.
BTW..it was a British rock critic [can't remember his name] that after hearing Hendrix refered to his music as "heavy metal falling from the sky". That is the first known reference to the term "heavy metal".2 Channel:
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If Creed is going to be on this list we might as well add Hootie and the Blowfish. LOL Sorry, but I just couldn't help myself.
End of rant.2 Channel:
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Rush is a top notch band, and I'm not dissing them in any way, but think about it, have you ever heard anyone say "I first picked up a guitar because of Alex Lifeson" as you do all the time Jimmy Page, Ace Frehley, Eddie Van Halen, etc.
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Good point about Alex Lifeson Mark. Although I think he is technically a very good player...and seems to almost never make a mistake. Which brings up a point...the guys in Rush are great players but don't improvise much (at least not during live performances). They just play their music pretty much as it is on the album, at least IMO. I guess that could be considered a strike against them.
And don't get me wrong...Geddy's voice can really get on a dude's (or my wife's for that matter) nerves. But then again, I would rather listen to him squealing out his high notes than Robert Plant singing "Baaaaby baaaaby baaaaby baaaaaby baaaaabyyyy" blah blah blah ad infinitum. If I didn't dislike Robert Plant's vocal hijinks soooo much Zeppelin certainly would have gotten by vote as best ever hard rock band. Cause the other three guys in the band could just rock.
And Mark - no vote for KISS? Talk about great musicianship - LOL. Just messin' around with ya.system 1:
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I don't ever recall Creed being mentioned as on the list of best bands. I know I mentioned them as playing a part in changing the minds of mainstream pop culture to abandon grunge rock in favor of a more classic rock sound but never called them the best. Unless I am missing something and someone else said it. I'm betting that people just aren't reading the words infront of them and seeing what they want to see like they always do. One would think that literacy would be an unwritten requirement for viewing an online forum. I guess not though.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
If you are referring to my post about Creed, it was made in jest. Just the sheer mention of that band in the same breath when discussing great influential bands I thought was funny!
Sorry you took it so hard..it was only an opinion!
One would think that a sense of humor would be an unwritten requirement for viewing an online forum. I guess not though.2 Channel:
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Originally posted by woodyjacobs
Good point about Alex Lifeson Mark. Although I think he is technically a very good player...and seems to almost never make a mistake. Which brings up a point...the guys in Rush are great players but don't improvise much (at least not during live performances). They just play their music pretty much as it is on the album, at least IMO. I guess that could be considered a strike against them.
And don't get me wrong...Geddy's voice can really get on a dude's (or my wife's for that matter) nerves. But then again, I would rather listen to him squealing out his high notes than Robert Plant singing "Baaaaby baaaaby baaaaby baaaaaby baaaaabyyyy" blah blah blah ad infinitum. If I didn't dislike Robert Plant's vocal hijinks soooo much Zeppelin certainly would have gotten by vote as best ever hard rock band. Cause the other three guys in the band could just rock.
And Mark - no vote for KISS? Talk about great musicianship - LOL. Just messin' around with ya.
Woody I agree with you about Geddy Lee's voice,and even about Robert Plant too. Look at any of Led Zep's concert videos and when Page is doing a 30 minute guitar solo a la Dazed and Confused, Plant must have gotten bored and started in with his gobolody dook noises he made to occupy himself. Zep was a great studio band, but live their shows could have a tendancy to bog down and become a little boring for stretches IMO. But they get my vote here as they had, arguably, the best singer, best guitar player, best drummer, and one of the best bassists.
As for Kiss, hmm, well, Paul Stanley did do a role on broadway as the lead in the Phantom of the Opera a few years ago. They don't just let any voice do that. He does supposedly have something like a 4 or 5 octave vocal range.
Is some bands, like to name just a couple for instance AC/DC's and the Rolling Stones' 2 to 4 chord songs really more complicated than Kiss'? I could teach you to play the intro to **** Tonk Women in less than 10 seconds flat if you've never picked a guitar up before in your life. I mean, it's not like they are a garage band who can't even tune their own instruments and every other band are all Julliard graduates. Actually their tour rehersals are brutal as Gene and Paul are perfectionists. I can burn you a copy of an Instant Live CD from when they played here at Walnut Creek last year, and there is not a mistake to be found anywhere on it save for Gene **** up a line of lyrics on one song.
They have certianly been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, influences on bands that came after them, either musically (especially on 80s bands like Motely Crue, Poison, Bon Jovi, etc., even on David Lee Roth era Van Halen as well who themselves went on to be a big influential band ) or visually on a wide range of performers. Even country artists have pyro in their shows now.
As for musicianship, listen to Ace Frehley's guitar solo on Alive II. Eddie Van Halen's "Eruption" which came out a year or two later sounded a lot like a certian part of it, almost identical. Ace was dabbling in tapping even before Eddie, although he tapped with his pick while Eddie finger tapped. Even Alex Lifeson had a solo on the first Rush album, I can't remember the song's name, that sounded a lot like Ace's solo on the first Kiss Alive. The one where they keep hitting the same 5 notes while getting faster and faster. Both albums came out in 1975, but Ace was doing it first. Rush opened up for Kiss back in '74 at a club right here in Raleigh that used to be called the Switch. Even on some 90s bands, listen to the guitar solo of Pearl Jam's "Alive" and tell me it isn't a note for note rip off of "She" by Kiss. Ditto with the basic rhythem track to Buckcherry's "Lit Up" and Kiss' "Shock Me".
So, do I win the DVD now with that post? -
Originally posted by W WALDECKER
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Sorry, Motorhead is metal. Lemmy is classic though. You gotta love him."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
pink floyd...i needs my daily dose...try live at pompeii on yer sda's:cool:
frank zappa...you gotta weed thru alot to get to the meaty stuff...but worth it
clapton
santana
robin trower
some fred zeppelin...i can't always take plant's voice
the dead...when they were all 'peaking' at the same time - they jammed
ac/dc...up till bk in blk
black sabbath
deep purple
mahogany rush
jeff beck...he's a bad man
van halen....not sure, is this stuff not holding up as well as the other 'gods of rock'?
triumph
i'm sure i'll think of more -
Best lead singer in hard rock, HMMMM....
Robert Plant
Ozzy
Steven Tyler
Freddie Mercury
Ann Wilson No particular order
Best Drummer in hard rock is without a doubt John Bonham.
Best percussionist is Neil Peart
Best bass player is Geddy Lee, Just listen, it's pretty obvious. Hell, half the time it's almost like he's playing lead.
Best guitarist in hard rock, HMMM... another hard one
Jimi
Eddie
Clapton
Page
Vai Take your pick, and yes there are more just can't get the ole noggin to wake up good yet.
Best keyboards will have to be Gregg Allman, with John Paul Jones, Geddy Lee, dude from Styx, and a few others getting honorable mentions.
Best hard rock flute is without a doubt is Ian Anderson.
Just my opinions. No hostility please.
Oh and BTW, I was listening to "How the West Was Won" on the way into work this morning..... Someone is going to get a really cool cd. Who says LZ isn't good live. Most of the footage of them live isn't really good to judge them by. Some of the older members that had the pleasure to see them live, please ring in here. Those who have never seen their live DVD that was released a few years ago owe it to themselves to acquire a copy and give it a looksee, especially if you're a Zepellin fan. It blows "The Song Remains the Same" away. Even Jimmy Page said they were not happy with that movie/documentary, wasn't one of there best live shows."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
Originally posted by ND13
Best lead singer in hard rock, HMMMM....
Robert Plant
Ozzy
Steven Tyler
Freddie Mercury
Nancy Wilson No particular order
Best Drummer in hard rock is without a doubt John Bonham.
Best percussionist is Neil Peart
Best bass player is Geddy Lee, Just listen, it's pretty obvious. Hell, half the time it's almost like he's playing lead.
Best guitarist in hard rock, HMMM... another hard one
Jimi
Eddie
Clapton
Page
Vai Take your pick, and yes there are more just can't get the ole noggin to wake up good yet.
Best keyboards will have to be Gregg Allman, with John Paul Jones, Geddy Lee, dude from Styx, and a few others getting honorable mentions.
Best hard rock flute is without a doubt is Ian Anderson.
Just my opinions. No hostility please.
Oh and BTW, I was listening to "How the West Was Won" on the way into work this morning..... Someone is going to get a really cool cd. Who says LZ isn't good live. Most of the footage of them live isn't really good to judge them by. Some of the older members that had the pleasure to see them live, please ring in here. Those who have never seen their live DVD that was released a few years ago owe it to themselves to acquire a copy and give it a looksee, especially if you're a Zepellin fan. It blows "The Song Remains the Same" away. Even Jimmy Page said they were not happy with that movie/documentary, wasn't one of there best live shows.
Best Singer for has got to be: Roger Daltrey...just a tough guy singing his **** off -
More Great Lead Singers, ETC:
Bob Seger
Roger Daltry
Lead Guitarists:
Gary Rickrath (never got his due)
Pete Townshend
Drums:
Phil Collins
Bass:
John Entwistle (try keeping the proper beat while Keith Moon goes nuts)
Piano:
Elton John
Glad to hear so many recognize Heart. Those ladies knew how to rock with the best.Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
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Originally posted by markmarc
More Great Lead Singers, ETC:
Bob Seger
Roger Daltry
Lead Guitarists:
Gary Rickrath (never got his due)
Pete Townshend
Drums:
Phil Collins
Bass:
John Entwistle (try keeping the proper beat while Keith Moon goes nuts)
Piano:
Elton John
Glad to hear so many recognize Heart. Those ladies knew how to rock with the best.
yeah!!! bob seger.....how 'bout the motor city madman, ted nugent? gary rickrath - from reo speedwagon? he was the only cool part about that band, IMO
