Bi Amp - Will this work?

RVJII

I am currently running a 5 channel system with an Onkyo TX-NR900 (7x110). My mains are RTi-12's and the center is a CSi-5. I was thinking of getting 3 Outlaw M-Blocks to bi-amp the front and get more power to my mains.

Question is, with the power difference (200 to bass and 110 to mids/tweets) and the brand diffence I am worried about how this is going to sound.

Any thoughts? Is anyone currently doing something similair?

Ron-P

Sounds like what you want to do is run the tweeds off your receiver and the mids off the blocks, not a good idea.

Have you given thought to buying up some 2-channel amps and bi-amping that way?

RVJII

Yep, that is exactly what I was thinking of doing. I've had some tell me that it should work but obviously I'm not too sure.

Figured that I'd tap into the expertise here...I was hoping that someone else had tried this before.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Ron, with the RTi12, he wouldn't be running the mids off the blocks, just the lows...the mids and highs should both run on the top set of posts...

RVJ - Yes, bi-amping those speakers will make a significant difference. There's not a receiver that I know of short of the price of separates that can run those things and do them justice. You're on the right track with your idea. Grab a couple of those Outlaw monos and run those on the lower set of posts on the speakers, run the top set of posts on the receiver. You can always add more amps as money arrives for upgrades later down the road...

YOu want to have all the mids and highs in your system run on the same power if you can because each amp is going to have it's own sound character, and you don't want to mix those really.

Running the lows doesn't matter as much because there's not that much detail down there.

Hope that makes sense...

RVJII

Yes, makes perfect sense. That is part of the reason that I was going to get 3 and bi-amp the center as well. I was thinking that for DVD's I'd want to have the same characteristics across the whole front.

Do you think that the center is too small / has too little bass for me to need the 3rd M-Block?

AsSiMiLaTeD

I have the CSi40 (equiv of your center) and I've never tried bi-amping that, so I can't comment.

However, I had the RTi150 (also equiv of your 12s) and did bi-amp them for a while. I bi-amped them with a lesser amp than the Outlaw (HK PA2000) and had stellar results - literally night and day difference to me.

My advice would be to start with the mains and go from there. I don't think you'll get as much improvement with the center as you will with your fronts.

Also, if you bi-amp the center, then you'll actually be working against yourself in terms of trying to get everything to sound the same across the front. If you bi-amp your mains and run the highs and mids off the receiver, then you'd also want your center run off the receiver - if you're trying to keep everything the same. Remember though, that depending on what you're running, the difference in amplification may not be an issue for you. If two amps have the same sound characterists, then mixing isn't a big deal - but I wouldn't do anything like mix a Denon and a Yamaha.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Going back to Ron's original post though, here's another thought.

When you get those Outlaws in, try running the whole speaker off those, so without bi-amping - so you wouldn't be using your receiver at all to power the fronts, only the Outlaw. In theory, you have less power, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't sound as good. Youre also going to have a bit of 'wasted' power with bi-amping because you're power isn't being allocated as efficiently as with a single run type setup...

Bottom line, I'd try running it like that and see how things sound to you. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you liked it better this way...

If you do set it up like this though, you may want to consider a third Outlaw to run the center on so you're matched across the front...like you originally said...

RVJII

Polkmaniac - Thanks for the input. I just ordered my new HDTV for the setup so this has to wait a few weeks (so many toys and never enough money...) but I'll let you know how it works out.

Hopefully I'll be able to try it out sometime in the beginning of July.

Ron-P

Ok, after looking at the specs of the 12's (I didn't realize they had the woofers) it might work fine.

Considering the cost of one mono-block at $300+ I think you'd be better off going with a 2-channel amp and bi-amping that way.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I agree with the 2 channel amp idea if you're not already set on the Outlaw. If they make a 2 channel, you may look at that as a cost effective solution - basically I'd go which ever gets you more power for cheaper.

I would reccomend Parasound, but if you really like the sound of the Onkyo, I don't know if you'd like the parasound much, completely different than the Onkyo to my ears. If you do like the Parasound though, you could grab an HCA 1500A for probably about $500. That would save you a little over the Outlaws. I haven't heard those Outlaws, but that Parasound is one of the best amps I've heard under a couple grand...

Toxis

I also vote for the 3 mono's to run the lows of the fronts and let the receiver carry the rest.

aaharvel

i just recently tried bi-amping my rti-4's- putting the tweeters to my h/k 235 and the midranges to my adcom 5300. Basically- it sounded horrible.

The speakers sounded better and constant with each individual driver working together when they were either hooked up to either the H/K receiver or more importantly- to the adcom 5300 amp NOT bi-wired/bi-amped.

I think it's the difference in sound characteristics from manufactorer to manufactoer. For me, the speaker totally lacked continuity and life. Unless you bi-amp with two amps from the same company- and preferably with two identical amps from the same company- I wholeheartedly recommend NOT bi-amping or bi-wiring.

JMO

Vgamer4550

Hey there, this was my thought for my setup which (when it is done) will be almost identical to yours.

For my Rti10s or Rti12s (whichever I end up with) I was going to use a Crown XLS-602 Amp for the mains and one of those Outlaw Monoblocks for the center. The Crowns will give you some major power for the fronts and the Outlaw will be just about right for the center.

You can pick up a Crown amp off of ebay for pretty cheap and from what I hear, these are just about the best bang for the buck amps out there. The only thing you will need to get is a converter for the crown amps because they dont accept a straight RCA connection for the reciever. Well, that's my two cents, hope it helps.

PS. Here is a good place to pick up that converter cable I mentioned http://www.cablestogo.com/product_list.asp?cat%5Fid=2029&engine=adwords!654&keyword=%28xlr+to+rca+adapter%29

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by aaharvel
i just recently tried bi-amping my rti-4's- putting the tweeters to my h/k 235 and the midranges to my adcom 5300. Basically- it sounded horrible.

The speakers sounded better and constant with each individual driver working together when they were either hooked up to either the H/K receiver or more importantly- to the adcom 5300 amp NOT bi-wired/bi-amped.

I think it's the difference in sound characteristics from manufactorer to manufactoer. For me, the speaker totally lacked continuity and life. Unless you bi-amp with two amps from the same company- and preferably with two identical amps from the same company- I wholeheartedly recommend NOT bi-amping or bi-wiring.

JMO

You bi-amped with RTi4...he's doing it with RTi12......COMPLETELY different.

When you bi-amped the 4s, you were using two different amps on the mids and tweeters, like you said. As I've mentioned above, this is a BAD idea unless the amps are close in sound characteristic.

With the 12s, you're running all the mids and highs off one amp, and the lows off the other amp...so the different amps are not an issue. That's basically fact, not my opinion.

I don't want to soud like an ****, but I'm going to anyway. People take advice given on here usually pretty seriously, that's why they ask. So when you do offer up advice, it's best to make damn sure that it's good advice. If it's not, someone will speak up and let you know, as I'm doing now.

/no hard feelings

Ron-P

Yep, as Polkmaniac stated, your fine as long as the mids and tweeds are on the same amp. The bass can be on a different amp due to them only seeing 100Hz or less.

My first comment above was based on my thought of doing this with spekaers like my RT55s (bookshelf that lack bass drivers). Something you'd not want to do and that is why I suggest the 2-channel amps.

RuSsMaN

You don't have to have the same amp, or same power for bi-amping, it just takes some tweaking.

I've bi amped LOTs of times using a flea tube amp on the highs, and grade a solid state beef on the lows.

aaharvel

"I don't want to soud like an ****, but I'm going to anyway. People take advice given on here usually pretty seriously, that's why they ask. So when you do offer up advice, it's best to make damn sure that it's good advice. If it's not, someone will speak up and let you know, as I'm doing now.

/no hard feelings"



none taken. it's just an internet discussion forum.
also- you might have missed that i typed in all caps JMO.

aaharvel

"Yep, as Polkmaniac stated, your fine as long as the mids and tweeds are on the same amp. The bass can be on a different amp due to them only seeing 100Hz or less."

chalk up one new lesson learned today.
I'm glad i'm not the only one that thinks that biamping midrange and tweeters separately on a 2way bookshelf sounded disappointing. When i upgrade to towers (if space becomes available) i'll try bi-amping that way and see what i can get.

HBombToo

7*200W/chnl, the Outlaw only burped when my RS cables were not isolated and has never disapointed me in any way since I upgraded... Ooops a great buy for my tastes anyway...

The best amp I have is a stasis which yields the best sq IMO.

the tube gallery is what I listen to always now. The Marantz 8 is so cool and sounds like an Angel.:D The Quicksilver has more options but my AIM pre sounds very sweet.

The 2B's ensure that all bad gear sounds good.

Twin

firefighter

RVJII, me and you have almost the same setup too and was thinking of bi-amping mine. I have the rti12's for the mains, csi5 center, rti4's for the surrounds, and a psw505 sub (will be changed out for a svs sub soon!!!!:D ). The only thing running these is a Yamaha rxv2500 receiver right now. Keep us posted as far as what you end up getting and how it works.

RVJII

Hoping to take the plunge soon. Just bought the HDTV so I need to wait a month or so...

I'll keep you posted how this turns out though...

firefighter

That sounds excellent RVJII. :cool: