Denon Problems, Flaw !!

P.HUNT

first off I LOVE DENON !
ok probly gona get hammered for this but oh well!!
i suspect this is a processing flaw or bad center amp!i hear a muffled echo sound from the center channel!

yes i have calibrated everything!!
both with the denon optimizer and by hand with Avia!!

TEST
(1) ok put your denon in 5 channel stereo and remove all speakers but your center.

(2) listen to it it probly sounds horrible!!

(3) remove your center inputs and plug them into your left or right main, (pretend your center is a main speaker) and i am shure you will be amaized at how much CLEANER it sounds and how much louder it is!

try this and let me know !! i have found this flaw in 5 brand new 3805,s 2 used 3805,s and a 3803
(4) i thested 2 yahama rxv-2500's and i found no problems

this is a major problem to me i noticed it right away with the energy speakers to understand the movie i had to turn it up loud
than when the action hit i was deafend!

please give me some feadback and or sugestions!

PolkThug

Sounds like a problem with your center channel speaker, if you can switch the wires to a L/R main and the problem goes away.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by PolkThug
Sounds like a problem with your center channel speaker, if you can switch the wires to a L/R main and the problem goes away.

That doesn't make sense. If he can switch the input and the problem goes away, it's obviously not something with the speaker itself, but with the receiver.

If you've done this on several new receivers, then it's definitely a flaw in the processing logic...or maybe it's there by design (that would be my guess)...

I would try it on my 3801 but I'm just too lazy.

I would say contact Denon, but their CS isn't the greatest...

fireshoes

Originally posted by P.HUNT
please give me some feadback and or sugestions!

Stop using so many exclamation points.

As far as the sound produced in 5-channel stereo, that's just the way Denon processes it. They designed it that way on purpose. It's not meant to be just the center speaker playing; it is there to fill in between the left and right front speakers.

cnjvh

I agree with fireshoes - you should be using PLIIx/DTS/5.1 modes for movies, not 5 Channel stereo. AFAIK, there's just ambient stuff present in the center in 5/7 channel stereo.

The other rmodes have dedicated center channels.

shack

If you are trying to use 5 channel stereo for movies that is your biggest mistake. In that mode the back speakers mimick the fronts and the center is just filler. No wonder you are getting blown away in movies. In that mode there is NO dialog going to the center and whenever there is any action you are getting it from front and rear speakers at the same time....plus the fact you have NO rear surround effects. Read you manual an make sure you are setting it up to properly receive and decode DD and DTS. You are getting neither in 5 channel stereo. That mode was designed primarily for playing music in stereo mode when you want to fill up a room with sound using all of your speakers.... like for a party. (not 5.1 surround like SACD or DVD-A, not simulated ESP "concert hall", "jazz club" etc..).

unc2701

Shack nailed it... In 5 channel stereo, the center channel ususally gets only the things that are exactly the same in the Left and right signals, which gives you weird phasing, echos and the things you're describing. I had one of those moments- I hooked up the center (and nothing else), played a DVD and was like, "Holy Crap!!! this sounds like ****!" Then realized it was on 5 ch stereo, not DD or DTS or pro-logic...

Toxis

User Error, not Denon Error.

P.HUNT

no for movies i have it set to auto and it selects DD or DTS
I have the problem playing 5 channel stereo, but like i said i am notising the same problem with dvds the lack of clean sound from the center speaker . I have tested this with the energy center and a polk CSi5 and i am still getting poor sound.

Anyone else got any ideas ?

I also tryed a marantz sr8500 today and found near the same results it was better for dvd but 5 channel stereo it was way worse.

I tested the yahama rxv-2500 and it sounded incrediable on both DVD and 5 channel stereo but it is a little bright and seems under powered?

unc2701

Let's try this again:

Usually the center channel in 5 ch stereo mode sounds like crap. This is by design. Same thing goes for the rear channel if you have a 6.1 setup (w/ 6 ch stereo mode on). In order to keep some semblance of stereo imaging, you have to send some kind of mono blend of both the left and right signals to the center channel. You can send the it both the full left and right signals OR send only the info that is the SAME for the left and right channels. The first one works, but tends hurt the stereo imaging somewhat since you've got the left &right channels pumping from square in the middle of the stereo pair. The second is a better approach for listening in most locations, but, as you've noticed, the center channel sounds a little funky if you get right up on it. I'm guessing that the yamaha uses approach 1 & the dennon uses approach 2. (BTW- those are oversimplifications of how 5-ch algorithms work, but that should give you an idea of what's going on).

The real issue here is: Why are you using 5ch stereo? For movies and TV you should be using DD, DTS, or pro logic. For music, most people find that 2 channel stereo sounds waaaaay better. The only time that you'd want to use 5 ch stereo is if you really want all of your speakers going at once, for a very diffuse effect...

P.HUNT

THANKS THAT SUMS IT UP GOOD .
I only listen to 5 channel for music but i am realizing that it is not the best way to do it, thanks

by the way polk speakers sound way better than the energy's

F1nut

Originally posted by unc2701
most people find that 2 channel stereo sounds waaaaay better.

Amen!

shiu

Originally posted by P.HUNT

by the way polk speakers sound way better than the energy's

Way better than your C9's? You meant something like the LSi15? I can't imagine the RTi series sounding way better than those C9's.

Never mind, just read your other post and now I know you are talking about the RT800I.