Best connection: RM6600 to Yamaha RX-V620

Sean De FreitasSean De Freitas Posts: 52
edited March 2002 in Technical/Setup
I have owned a Polk RM6600 satellite system with PSW350 sub for some time now. Previously it was running through an older Yamaha receiver (RX-V692) which was Pro-Logic, but had 6 channel discrete inputs. I achieved Dolby Digital and DTS with my Toshiba 5200 DVD player which had the decoders built into it.

In that original set up, I tried both ways to connect the speakers; the non-Polk way (ie RCA sub lead to sub, and the normal connections to the speakers), and the Polk way (switch off the sub on the DVD player, take L and R out of the receiver direct to the sub, then front L & R back to the front L&R speakers. Centre and rears out of the receiver). The latter system was much smoother and better suited to my system.

This is the way I have my new receiver set up; the Yamaha RX-V620 (which some on this newsgroup have, I'm sure). However, as this receiver is much more capable than my previous receiver, and has it's own built-in decoders, and far more control of sub-out and crossover, etc, am I better to revert to the non-Polk set up? Will that give me more flexibility without losing that 'natural' sound. Your advice would be appreciated.
Post edited by Sean De Freitas on

Comments

  • bnewhallbnewhall Sales Manager Posts: 2
    edited March 2002
    You have several options - 1) you could hook up the woofer to the sub out of the Yamaha (with the sub selector in the "on" or "yes" position) and choose the "small" setting for the fronts (and center and surrounds), or, 2) hook up the sub and front satellites speaker level to the front speaker outputs of the receiver, selecting "large" for the fronts and "no" or "off" for the sub.

    My experience is that #2 will work much better - why? - with solution #1 you are depending on the Dolby Digital settings of the Yamaha to accomplish the crossover blending between the satellites and the woofer - always one of the most difficult areas of sub/sat design and one key reason why the RM6600s sound so good. They are pretty remarkable at producing a large, cohesive stage rather than the more typical result where it is easy to hear and locate the different elements of the system.

    Hope this makes sense, I am a Polk person so maybe you will get some other ideas also.

    Good luck and enjoy, sounds like you should have a nice system.
  • avelanchefanavelanchefan Posts: 2,412
    edited March 2002
    Sean,

    I have the RX-V620 and I have set it up both ways. I personally like the "Non" polk way. Why? Well it was multiple reasons, but mainly I like the way it sounds. (I am at work so bare with me if I get this wrong)

    I have the sub hooked up using the L & R line level input. Then on the Yamaha reciever I have the bass set to both. This way when I do want to listen to 2 channel stereo I can 1) Leave the Bass on if I want, or 2) I can turn the bass off by selecting main speaker on the receiver. But it is all about preference, and I suggest you try both ways. I also have my main speakers set to large and the rears set to small. (as per the instructions in the manual.)

    Good luck and happy listening.:)
    Sean
    XboxLive--->avelanchefan
    PSN---->Floppa
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  • Sean De FreitasSean De Freitas Posts: 52
    edited March 2002
    1) Reply to bnewhall: Thanks for your comments. I agree, with my experience so far (ie with the previous receiver- Yamaha RX-V692) I tried both scenarios and found the Polk way really immersed the listener in the sound stage, and you weren't particularly aware of the various speakers firing off individually (which I really like as it seems much more natural to me).

    My question to you though, are your experiences with a Yamaha RX-V620 or another type of receiver?

    2) Reply to avelanchefan: Thanks too for your comments. I am interested to find out a bit more re your connections. It sounds like you are connected the same way I am (can you confirm this?) ie Left and Right out (on receiver) to the sub, then returning back to the front L & R speakers (ie the Polk recommended setup), then Centre and Rears direct out of the back of the receiver.

    If that is the case, it sounds like you don't have an RCA out from the Yamaha sub out plug, going to the RCA in on the sub (am I correct?) If not have you tried that way, and what difference have you experienced compared with the way I have described (above)?

    Regards,

    Sean.
  • avelanchefanavelanchefan Posts: 2,412
    edited March 2002
    Sean,

    No I have it hooked up at the current time using my RCA connection, with the receiver set to Both in bass. I have tried it the original "Polk" way but found it a bit muddied maybe. Just something was off to me, and I could not put a finger on it.

    So I went to the RCA method and liked it better. Plus again (as I stated below) you still have control over your bass output in all modes of play. Not that you don't in the other set-up, but I feel the Yamaha is better suited for this setup.

    If you notice in step three of the manual is the recomended way (option #2) to hook up the RM6600. Mains are set to large and center & rears set to small. I hope this helps you some.
    Sean
    XboxLive--->avelanchefan
    PSN---->Floppa
    http://card.mygamercard.net/avelanchefan.png
  • zzpolkzzpolk Posts: 9
    edited March 2002
    I have the RM6200 system with a Yamaha HTR-5450 receiver. My preference is the direct hookup of the sub to the receiver. I tried both ways and found that I preferred the sound quality when the system was hooked up the non-Polk way. The hardest thing for me was to sort out the settings on the Yamaha receiver. What is funny is that I prefer the Normal setting, than any of the DSPs, for movies and music. WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND OUT ?
  • Sean De FreitasSean De Freitas Posts: 52
    edited March 2002
    To ZZPolk: Re DSP preferences, I am having a ball with 70mm DD or DTS settings set to Adventure, General, Sci-Fi and Spectacle. Eg. I set it to Spectacle when watching Pearl Harbour (great) and to Sci-Fi when watching the 6th Sense (again, great) however with this one, my elderly parents had come over for the evening and they found dialogue a little difficult with all the action happening. Changed it to General, and no probs.

    Previously, with my old RX-V692 Yammy receiver which had all the DSP settings but only for Pro Logic, I was forced to play through the 6 channel discrete inputs which eliminated all the DSP modes (while yielding full DD and DTS through my DVD player which has on-board decoders). The difference I found with the 620 which has all the DSP modes in both DD and DTS, was not huge, but subtly better (in my opinion).

    All up, I think the sound quality is better (not by a huge margin) but smoother, particularly in the dialogue sections which sound more natural.

    Hope this helps.

    Sean.
  • Sean De FreitasSean De Freitas Posts: 52
    edited March 2002
    More to ZZPolk:

    Sorry, forgot to mention music. With the Yamaha 620, it has this wonderful DSP setting called 5 channel stereo. Just bung in a 2 channel CD and 'Wunderbar' (apologies to any Germans out there for incorrect spelling, but you get what I mean!), it transforms the humble CD into and extremely well simulated surround sound through centre, fronts, rears and subbie. Very nice and to my ears, a much better way to listen to 2 channel, especially with the RM6600s.
  • Sean De FreitasSean De Freitas Posts: 52
    edited March 2002
    To Avelanchfan: I have just completed this setup, albeit with a low quality RCA-RCA (Sub out on receiver to the PSW 350).

    At first listen it sounds very similar. With Easter coming up (ie time off work, rah, rah, rah!) I will get chance to really get into it.

    Re-reading the manual for the PSW 350, they really do hammer the 'Polk' recommended setup. Also, reading the Yamaha RX-V620 manual, their settings do seem to allow the Polk setup without loss of any dynamic range. The only apparent difference would seem to be that on the 350, you have the ability to easily vary the high pass filter. I need to do some really critical listening tests both ways before I make the final decision.

    What is interesting though, is that on first listen, I can not detect much difference on the 620, between the 2 methods. Whereas with my old RX-V692 Yamaha receiver the difference was quite marked (ie much better and more seamless with speakers set up the Polk way). Maybe the 620, which diverts signals 90khz and below to the sub is below the cut off of the RM6600s (the V692 had a 200hz cut off!).

    I will definitely re-post after or during Easter with my findings.

    Thank you for your advise.

    Sean.
  • avelanchefanavelanchefan Posts: 2,412
    edited March 2002
    Sean,

    I am using monster cables for my connection. Maybe a little bit of a difference there.

    Also I really agree with how impressed you are with 5 channel stereo. I love music and TV through it. I think it may rival or be better thatr Pro Logic 2. Any ways all my music is played on 5 channel stereo.:)
    Sean
    XboxLive--->avelanchefan
    PSN---->Floppa
    http://card.mygamercard.net/avelanchefan.png
  • simonsaysheysimonsayshey Posts: 11
    edited March 2002
    I have a denon 1802 with Pro Logic ii and 5 channel stereo (running polk rm6200s)- I prefer the 5 channel for music - as does my wife (because she says she can actually hear stuff coming out of the rears). It is a nice feature for music... anyone know how to get the most out of the pro logic ii though? What is it best suited for? :confused:
  • Sean De FreitasSean De Freitas Posts: 52
    edited March 2002
    Hi Guys,

    Yes, I reckon 5 channel stereo must be one of the unheralded feats of the new audio era. I have not heard or read any advertising hype on it, as opposed to things like Pro Logic II, Dolby 6.1, DTS-ES, etc. All these features are supposed 'must haves', yet something which is as good as 5 channel stereo, barely gets a mention!

    Re Pro Logic II, I have heard that it is similar to 5 channel stereo but can not confirm it as I have not had the chance to hear how it sounds. What I can say though is that the orginal Pro Logic works better on the RX-V620 than it did on my old RX-V692 receiver (which was a true Pro-Logic receiver). With that old amp, in Pro Logic, at normal listening levels, the centre speaker was much quieter than the fronts and sub. This made dialogue hard to hear, unless you cranked the crap out of the volume. Which was fine until the action started, then 'Kaboom - turn that thing down, do you have to have it so loud?!!!! ' from guess who? With Pro Logic on the 620, or with 5 channel stereo, my wife has no such concerns (I might mention, far less with 5 channel stereo which seems perfectly suited to watching TV through the 5.1 setup, and works a dream with the 6600s and 350 sub.

    Now, after that slight digression, I did really do some testing last night with the Polks and receiver set up the Non-Polk way, ie RCA out of receiver to sub, etc. On the receiver I had centre spkr set to small (so that everything below 90khz went to sub), main speakers set to small (again same reason), rears set to small, and sub set to subwoofer (tried the Both setting as well). Results: Could definitely pick the sub kicking in. It was noticeable and frankly, a bit annoying. I thought, this is not as good as before, so went back and re-configured the setup as follows:

    L & R speaker outs from Yamaha to sub speaker inputs. Then Speaker cables out from sub to L & R speakers. Centre and rears still coming out of the Yamaha. On the Yamaha, Centre spkr set to small, Mains to large, rears to small, sub set to Mains. According to the Yamaha manual, with the Centre and rears set to small, all under 90khz is sent to whatever your sub is set to. Main set to large keeps all the signal with them. Then on the sub, it is set to Main. So what I understand is happening is that any freqs under 90 khz from centre and rears travels to the sub area and gets diverted back to the mains which are then sent out to the 350 sub. Those low freqs are then produced by the sub. That is the theory, but I must say, it did seem to work very well.

    Comparison between the 2 methods: The Polk way is definitely smoother after doing an A-B test. The bass is now not immediately noticeable (yet it is still as strong and has not diminished). The whole sound stage is much smoother (just like I found initially with the old receiver set up this way). I am now satisfied that, for my ears at least, I have set the receiver and speaker up for optimum listening.

    So, thank you for your help and advise. I have appreciated your comments as they have helped me clarify some really important issues. By the way Avelanchefan, I too am using Monster cables and the difference they make over 'normal' cables is quite marked.

    Regards,

    Sean.
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