R series RTi upgrade question

ivansfo

Hi Polkies,

Somewhat new to this forum. Need some advice on a center channel for this upgrade I'm doing. I'm basically need to decide on the following center channel speakers.

1. Keep existing Csi30
2. Buy the Csi3
3. Splurge on the Csi5

I think I read that the Polk Csi30 and Csi3 are very similar in terms of sound. Is that right? And do you think the Csi5 might be overkill for this?


My old setup

---

Front L&R: R50s
Rear L&R: R15s
Center: Csi30
Sub: SVS-PB10ISD

New setup

---

Front L&R: Rti8
Rear L&R: Rti4
Center: ?
Sub: SVS-PB10ISD

Powered by Onkyo TX701. Use: 80% HT 20% MUSIC


Thanks,

ivan

Crazed

Splurge! and don't look back.

Airplay355

The csi3 and csi5 are timbre matched to the rest of your system. They have a vifa tweeter while the csi30 has an older silk dome tweet. I think you'd be happiest with a csi5. The enter channel has to reproduce over 50% of the sound in movies, so it's not a speaker ou should skimp on. Sell your csi30 to help you with the cost of a new csi5. If you don't mind ebay and audiogon check there, as well as the flea market here for used or new csi5's.

good luck

ivansfo

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get the Csi5 since I hate wondering how much better it would sound if didn't get the Csi5.

Ivan

Toxis

I personally don't think the CSi3 keeps up with the RTi towers, hence Polk creating the CSi5.

Willow

Toxis you may be right, to a certain point. Yes it's timbre matched. But the other day I was watching a tv show and for some reason the receiver was in stereo and the sound was much more full (running 8's) when I switched to PLII it wasn't as full (using csi3)

Toxis

but part of that could be the processing as well.

Willow

could be :eek:

ivansfo

Thought I give an update on this upgrade.

I finally got the the Polk RTi8s and RTi4s hooked up while I still have my Csi30. Something does't sound right with this configuration. Dialog in movies sound very distant and muffled. I have to turn up the volume way up in order for me to hear the dialog. This was not the case when I had the R series with the Csi30. The system sounded pretty balanced before.

Could it be the highs from the new RTi line is over powering the center? Maybe my receiver is underpowered for the RTi line?

I can obviously tell the highs on the RTi series are are much brighter. My next step is to replace the Csi30 with a Csi5. I hope this fixes the problem because right now it sounds more like I downgraded.

Ivan

Airplay355

your receiver isnt the #1 choice to drive a home theater full of rti's but it will work. you might want to invest in an SPL meter and an calibration disc. that way the sound will be equal from all speakers. search the forum for instructions on how and what to do with that.

another reason could be its simply the movie. some movies are just recorded poorly and the dialogue just isnt clear unless you turn it up loud. but i don't think thats your problem.

another reason could be that the csi30 is too small for the room you have it in. sound is effected by the space its created in, so sticking a small speaker in a big room isnt going to give you the best results.

i think you would hear the biggest improvement from getting a seperate amp, or a better receiver. unless you can get a great deal on the csi5 right now, i would look for an amp first. or if you can, get the csi5 and an amp to power it with. that would yeild the best results. here is a good amp to power a center with. you can call to see if they have them in B-stock, making it even cheaper, or you could look around for other mono amps, used or new. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/200.html

what's your budget for this upgrade and what size room are you in?

ivansfo

Hi Airplay,

Size of mt family room is 17' x 14' which I guess is considered medium sized. This HT project all started out as a budget system but I jumped on some good deals when Fry's was clearing out the Onkyo 701 and the Polk R series. I was pretty satisfied with the old system until one day I tried an A/B comparion between the R and RTi series at Fry's showroom. In hindsight, I shouldn't have done that ;-) The vocals and highs from the RTi line was way more clear so I was immediately hooked.

Buying separate amps is not an option because of space. All the receiver/amps must fit under my TV stand and it's already stuffed with the receiver, DVD player, and VCR.

I should also mention I do have the Radio Shack SPL meter. I recalibrated the new system using 78db as reference just like I had done before. The reason why I think the Csi30 might be inadequate is that I had a similar problem before. Prior to the CSi30, I had a CSi20 with my R series. Again I felt the diaglog wasn't strong enough so I upgraded to the Csi30. That upgrade was a good improvement in sound.

So I'm really hoping a timbre matching center channel such as the Csi3 or Csi5 would fix this. Otherwise, I will go back to the R series. If the Onkyo 701 isn't strong enough for the Csi5, think the Csi3 might be a better match?


Thanks for the tips.

Ivan

ivansfo

For the past 2 days I took drastic action to come to a decision on the RTi upgrade. No better way than to audition the speaker in your own home. So I purchased a Polk Csi3 and Csi5 from a local Polk retailer and brought them home for careful listening.

The Csi3 was a improvement over the Csi30. The sound of this speaker appears to be better voice matched to the RTi8 towers in the midrange and highs. However movie dialog was still lacking where I had to turn up the volume pretty high before it was clear. The problem with high volume is that I felt fatigue because the tweeters are now too loud. After a night of playing various movies through the Csi3, I felt that ringing in my head when I went to bed. This is not good.
So the CSi3 is a slight improvement but not exactly what I was looking for.

The next night I hooked up the huge Csi5. The sound of this speaker matched the RTi8 very well. This center together with the RTi8 blended nicely where the soundstage appear seamless. Dialog was good but the overall sound lacked "depth and presence". I have experienced this before with car audio and this is usually due to lack of power. For the one who said my Onkyo 701 doesn't have enough juice, I think you are right on the mark here.

Right after playing with the Csi5 and Rti8, I took them down and hooked up the old speakers. This consist of R50s and a CSi30 as center. I played the same movies and instantly, I enjoyed the sound more. Movie dialog is very much in your face and I don't have to strain to hear what they are saying. The tweeters on these speakers are soft and subtle which to me made the sound warm and comfortable. The wife listened with me between the Csi5/Rti8 system and the Csi30/R50 system. She too came to the same conclusion without even hearing my opinion.


So with much sadness and disappointment, I'm going to cancel this upgrade. I'm going to return the two Csi center channels back to the store. Anyone in the SF/San Jose bay area interested in buying my new RTi8 and RTi4s? They are in black.

Thanks much for all the advice.

ivan

PolkThug

Try listening to the AK-47 gunfire in the beginning of SWAT for center channel comparison material.

Regards,
PT

ivansfo

Will try SWAT tonight. For the past days I have used the following movies.

HEAT
Good dialog & gun action effects

TOP GUN
This is the 2004 edition, overall decent sounds on this movie

FINDING NEMO
I watch this every night with my daughter so I'm very familiar with the sound (and every word ;-) of this disc.

TINA TURNER CELEBRATE
Just to compare a little live music

STAR WARS (Phantom Menace)
I think the pod racing part is pretty good

Ron Temple

Sorry to hear your disappointment. I'm just upgrading into the R series from an Onkyo 770. Have the 50s and 15s, looking for a center. The Onkyo receiver is the HTR 520, a tweaked 502, but has no struggle powering the Rs. It's a bit disconserting that for the next step up, I'll have to put in around $1500 for receiver/amps to run the Rtis adequately.

ivansfo

Ron,

I think you'll be pleased with the R50s & R15s setup. For a center channel, try to find a Csi30 instead of a Csi20. I've tried both and I can tell you the Csi30 is a much better speaker in terms of dialog and clarity. I'm about to go pick me up a pair of R15s too to replace my RTi4. I thought the Onkyo 701 was a pretty decent amp but I guess it's no match for the higher end speakers.

I guess I could upgrade to the Monitor series but after this little exercise, I think I'll just stick with the R series. Though it may be cheap and not respected by some, I personally like the sound of them.

Ivan

Ron Temple

Originally posted by ivansfo
Ron,

Though it may be cheap and not respected by some, I personally like the sound of them.

Ivan

It's all about what you like. The R50s (and 30s) are a huge upgrade from the Onkyo speakers. Frankly, I don't know if I'd want a brighter speaker than the Rs. If you like them better than the Rtis in your home then I'll probably be happier too.

I've been looking on the bay for centers. I think I saw a CSi30, but didn't pull the trigger. Next time.

Can you take the Rtis back or is it too late?