Polk RTi12s or LSi15s?

mwaarna

I am new to home theather and i like the polk line of speakers, and i would like to purchase something that will not be out of date in a year or two.

The receiver i will be using is a Denon AVR-2805.

I have the money to purcahse LCR for now and later on get the rears and a sub.

But my big debate has been with deciding which series to go with, the RTi or the LSi series.

My main concern is that the denon only goes down to 6ohms and not hte 4 ohms that the LSi series is rated at.

I looked thru Denons website and they said it was ok to run 4 ohm speakers with denon receivers :
http://www.usa.denon.com/support/faqs_ht.asp#Q9

I like the look of the LSi series over the RTi series but the RTi series seemed to be much louder.

The Guy selling it to me at Tweeter said that teh Denon 2805 would be able to handle the LSi series just fine.

What do you guys think which series i should go with?

audiobliss

Originally posted by mwaarna
The Guy selling it to me at Tweeter said that teh Denon 2805 would be able to handle the LSi series just fine.

Excuse me a minute here........bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! ROFL Did he say that?!?!?!? ROFL....hehehe....hooo.....ahhh. Ok...I think I...hahha....caught my...hehe...breath, now. haahaa hehe....hoo

Sorry 'bout that.


Now, for your questions. I would say the Denon most definitely is NOT the ideal unit to power the LSi series with, especially if you're going to hook-up five of 'em to it. It will push them and make noise, but you will not be taking full advantage of them by any means. I seriously would not expect to keep the Denon (and use it as the amp) for any length of time if you go with the LSi series. You will definitely need an external amp to make 'em really sing.

As to RTi vs. LSi: The LSi series is generally regarded as being superior to the RTi series, but it really depends on your ears and what you're planning to do with your speakers. Are you going to be mainly using this system for movies? Multi-channel music? Stereo?

Just go out and listen to both series and see which one sounds best to you. I would suggest external amplification even if you go with the RTi series.


And, welcome to the forum!!

McLoki

Welcome to Club Polk.

Have you heard both the 12's and the 15's and like them both? What is your system going to be used for? (music, movies) What kind of music or movies do you enjoy listening to? How large is your room? How do you feel about running an external amplifier?

Now that the questions are out of the way, here are my thoughts.

If you want to just run with the Denon, go with the RTi series - but not the 12's. Whatever you get, set all the speakers to small so the sub is taking care of the bass for all speakers.

If you really want the 12's plan on a external 2 channel amp in the cost. If you really want to run LSi's plan on at least the front stage running off external amplification. (If you run LSi7's in the rear you could run them off your AVR. Anything else in the rear I would recommend an Amplifier for the rears as well.) For the best sound, you really need external amplification for all 5 channels. (dont think about 7 channels with that AVR)

I know the LSi15's and RTi12's are close in price, but the real killer is amplification. (both will need amplification, but ALL the channels in an LSi series should really have it - LSi's will show off any deficiencies anywhere else in your audio chain as well. (source, wires, etc.))

I personally think the LSi series is worth the price difference, but the cost increase is alot more than the difference in speaker prices.

Michael

mwaarna

Thanks for the Advice.

I ordered the Denon 2805 for around 600 bucks online, and it hasnt shipped yet. (so i do have time to cancle)

But i could settle for a LR for now and spend the money i was going to put into a center channel to get a better receiver, which receiver around 1k would do the LSi series justice? (links directly to merchants selling the receiver would be good)

I would say 25% for video games, 25% for music mainly stereo until i start to get some DTS music, and 50% HT.

Room sizew 15x30 but i'm moving in august so this isnt set in concrete.

What kind of external Amps are recommended and how much do they run for?(direct links for this would be appreciated also.)

audiobliss

I'm gonna hafta say that no receiver around the $1000 price-point will do the LSi series justice. It'll certainly do better than the Denon 2805, but I don't think it will do them justice. I'll bow out now and start learning from what the other guys say, too!

McLoki

An adcom amp like this would be great for an LSi system. It would burn most of your budget though and you would still have to get a pre-amp or processor to run though.

For two channel, a Parasound like this would work really well and you could get a less expensive reciever (it HAS TO HAVE pre-outs though) to use as your pre-amp.

You could always go with a couple of outlaw monoblocks If you could get bstock, it would be alot of power for not alot of money. Once again - you could downsize your reciever to something in the $300-$400 range (WITH PRE-OUTS) and just plan on using external amplifiers as you add speakers.

The sound of LSi's and RTi's are quite different. It will be hard to demo both with decent amplification (at least it is around here) but this would be a great start no matter which direction you decided to go.

Michael

Edit - If you don't mind going used, it would be pretty easy to put together a killer setup (electronics wise) for under a grand. It is a little harder (but still can be acomplished) if you purchase new.

Remember you need current, not just watts. Don't be fooled by a reciever putting out 125 watts/channel and an amplifier putting out the same number of watts. There is a big difference in sound between one and the other. Even though they both look like the same power - they won't sound like it.

okiepolkie

I second the Outlaw monoblock idea. They are normally $300 each, but B-stock are $230 each with free shipping. They usually don't show to be in stock online, but if you call, they might have some for sale.

Denon would still be a good choice for its surround formats and capabilities. The least expensive Denon with preouts is the 1905. You can usually get it for under $300 if you don't mind refurbished. Actually, the 2805 is $550 if you get it from ecost or pcmall.com.

If you go with the 2805 and a couple of monoblocks for the L/R, then you can add a monoblock for the center when you get it, and use the remaining channels on the receiver to run the surround channels.

mwaarna

thank you so much for the monoblock idea.

That sounds good, i think i will cancle my order for the Denon 2805 and either get a 1905 or 2105 which one should i get both have the preamps. Or do you guys have other ideas for preamp/processor?

The Idea of having the LSi 15s taken to their ideal level with the Outlaw Monoblock sounds very very intriguing.

(i'm a person who cant settle)

Of course this would increase my whole bill by 230 dollars per speaker, but the way i see it is that once i have 5 mono blocks and speakers setup all i have to do in the future is upgrade the preamp/processor.

i am very much liking this whole idea, although my wallet nor my gf will like the idea at all.


But i could just have 3 monoblocks for LCR and run the surrounds thru the receiver.... hmmm gotta think about this for a couple of days and thanks alot for all the ideas, now can you guys help me pick out a New receiver, the receiver can be refurbished. thanks

audiobliss

With the Denons, correct me if I'm wrong, you're looking at about $300-$350, right? Just for the preamp section. I imagine you can get a pretty-doggone good preamp for that; especially if you go used.

mwaarna

Originally posted by audiobliss
With the Denons, correct me if I'm wrong, you're looking at about $300-$350, right? Just for the preamp section. I imagine you can get a pretty-doggone good preamp for that; especially if you go used.

Yes it would eb around 300-400, and i would need a Pre-amp/Processor combination.

wingnut4772

I have LSI15s for L/R and and an LSI9 as a center. I use a Sherwood Newcastle P-965 as a pre/pro (It is outstanding).http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5772386400&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
and an Outlaw Audio 770 -7 channel amp http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/770.html
which is rated 300 w@ 4ohms ALL channels driven. I am saving to get Lsis for my surrounds when I move.

Only get the LSIs if you are prepared to spend the money on everything else. I was running them with an Onkyo 701 before (no amp) and the difference between then and now is night and day.

audiobliss

Sounds great, but I think that's a little more than he wanted to spend....:D

McLoki

Originally posted by audiobliss
With the Denons, correct me if I'm wrong, you're looking at about $300-$350, right? Just for the preamp section. I imagine you can get a pretty-doggone good preamp for that; especially if you go used.

I would have thought this as well, but I just cannot find a pre\pro for that price range. The cheapest I have been able to find a pre-amp (new) is outlaw 950 for $700. (just because they brought out their new 990 for $1000)

Even used, they command a much higher price than you can get a new lower end reciever for. I would say, for the speakers listed so far, get a low end AVR to use as the pre-amp. Once you get all the speakers and separate amps all around - purchase a decent pre-amp and move the AVR to another area or sell it.

If anyone has any ideas on where to get a pre-amp (with 7.1 capabilites) for under $500 I would really apprecieate hearing about it.

Michael

wingnut4772

Oh I know...it was a little more than I wanted to spend too ...but I bought the LSIs from a sales guy who said the Onkyo would run em 'just fine'. Of course I couldn't just take them back and I HAD to upgrade everything else:p

Ok. For the budget minded , try a used Onkyo 701. It was a very nice receiver for me when I only had the Rti series on it. It also has pre outs so you can upgrade later to an amp if you'd like.

gregure

Don't want to throw a wrench in the gears here, but I really think the Rti speakers would be fine for you if 75% of your usage is for movies and gaming. Rti only falls short for music in being a bit bright, but with quality recordings and a decent amp/receiver, this can be greatly reduced.
I think the 2805 is a fine unit, and that you should probably consider the Rti 10's rather than 12's as nothing shy of a huge 2-channel amp would really do them justice. You could even consider the 3805, and go Rti 10's w/ Csi 5. You would really be happy w/ that setup. LSi is working toward higher end, which requires higher end everything to mesh well, plus the biggest benefit would be for music, which you use them for the least. Honestly, I think for your budget, it would be better to have decent speakers driven well, than great speakers driven ****. And might I add, using a cheap receiver for a pre is not a good idea. It's cheap for a reason; not just because of low wattage.

Tour2ma

Lots of great cautions and possible solutions above...

Originally posted by mwaarna
I like the look of the LSi series over the RTi series but the RTi series seemed to be much louder.
What do you guys think which series i should go with?

First, don't underestimate the power of "looks". If the LSi's fit your eye, you may never be happy with a less appealing model. But looks obviously cannot not the sole basis for the decision. You've got to audition your potential choices properly.

Take some of your music and movies that you know back to Tweeter, find a different salesperson and audition both the RTi's and the LSi's at the same volume. By same volume I do not mean the same setting on the AVR in the demo room, I mean the same sound pressure level (SPL) at your listening position. You can approximately get them equal by ear, but you can also ask your sales person if they have an SPL meter you can use, if you do not own one and don;t want to buy one right now (however, you should eventually buy one to calibrate your HT).

Dim the lights, close your eyes and listen. Then come back and tell us what you decided...

McLoki

Originally posted by gregure
You could even consider the 3805, and go Rti 10's w/ Csi 5. ........ Honestly, I think for your budget, it would be better to have decent speakers driven well, than great speakers driven ****. And might I add, using a cheap receiver for a pre is not a good idea. It's cheap for a reason; not just because of low wattage.

This is an excellent point. For video games and basic HT, I thought the cheapers pre-amp would be fine. (you would suffer some in 2-channel because you would notice the deficiencies more there), but in the end you could upgrade your AVR to a good Pre/Pro.

Does anyone know (has heard) what would sound better? A new low end pre-amp with external amps running LSI or RTi12's compared to a good mid grade AVR (say for $1,000)?

Michael

McLoki

I read an interesting thread on the AVS forum about what makes the most difference Pre/Pro or Power Amp It is not directly relatable to this discussion but a good read none the less. For this discussion we are debating the pre/pro in a $350 AVR + an outlaw monoblock vs the pre/pro and amp in a $1000 AVR when running a difficult speaker load (RTi12 or LSi15).

I would think the $1000 AVR would lose this battle, but that is just my opinoin. Ultimately it is your ears and your budget.

Can you get tweeter to hook a decent amp to a low end avr and compare that to a Denon 3805? If you could compare that combo running LSi15's or RTi12's you would have your answer and hopefully you will report back and let us know what you found out.

Michael

unbridled_id

Hello all this is related to the thread.
My set up consists of a nad c272 power amp, an ft audio passive pre, nad 541i cdp and a c422 tuner. My speakers are rti-10's and they sound good.
I have not heard many brands of speakers though I have spend untold hours on sites like this soaking up knowledge from all my fellow a/v brethren. Now to my question, I too am enamored with the lsi 15's.. I know the some of the differences between the rti and lsi. The lsi has a smoother flatter tweeter and better components. I only use my system for music and was wondering if the upgrade would be worth it. What does the lsi offer me over the rti? I would have to sell my rti for a loss on audiogon and shell out a good bit to get the lsi's from crutchfields so I am in this web of upgradeitis and it may be clouding my judgement. I have been told that for music the lsi betters the rti by some. Others have said the ring tweeter on the lsi is very "polite" and can detract from some music....
I know this question has been asked to death, but what say you all about this quandry I find myself in..

aaharvel

Everyone on here is right. Get separate amps- regardless if it's the RTI-12 or the LSI-15- and for only $100 more get the lsi 15's.

Honestly i don't know how the rti-12's sell being only $100 less than the superior RTI. Both speakers are going to be recommended to be driven by separates. Am I missing something?

fronts- rti-4
center- csi-3
sides- f/x300i
rears- f/x300i
velodyne cht-10

pre/pro- h/k 235
Adcom GFA 5300 2ch. amp
Adcom GFA 7300 5ch. amp

aaharvel

unbridled if you like you're rti-10's i say keep them. you have a very nice system. I've always wanted to hear what NAD sounds like. =(