The Latest and Greatest Amp...

pjdami
pjdami Posts: 1,894
edited May 2005 in 2 Channel Audio
Anybody had a chance to hear one of these DK Design Group amps yet?

http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/shm_store.pl?ampstran&1100980884&item&Audiorevelation&show&

Sure are some pretty pictures there.

Claimed to be "better" than Mark Levinson 383, MF Nu Vista, MF KW 500, and Rowland amps. Some pretty high praise there but it is a $3,000 amp.

Interesting tube pre and SS amp integrated design.

Sure looks purdy but a little over the top for me. Maybe if I didn't have so much stuff already. Thought some of you might enjoy the pics.

Paul
Post edited by pjdami on
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,899
    edited May 2005
    I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and no offense intended, but it kinda reminds me of a freakin' battery charger :D

    EDIT: A really NICE battery charger I might add! ;)
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2005
    Zero - C'mon..if the power meters didn't work, end demo. What do you need to do further? I don't think the meters are inherent to the design, but non-working....is non-working....next. That's a completely useless demo IMO.

    Paul - It's been posted here previously if I recall....but I have no personal experience with this piece of gear.

    I like it from a outside standpoint and have always liked integrated designs personally. A properly executed integrated is often miles above many separates in this bracket. Separates are easy from a designer standpoint, big deal, how hard is it to split a chassis. I say this because some separates are simply chopped up versions of their full range gear and that's unimpressive.

    A hardcore integrated has typically already thought of the issues associated with integrated performance....and addressed and/or has solved them for the application.

    I'll use F1Nut for an example, whether he likes it or not, as his MF Tri-Vista setup is hardcore, and sounds phenomenal....I can't imagine getting anything more out of his system than he currently employs. He will naturally buy something in the future and say it improved it, but he's freaking crazy.

    The hype is big on this piece, but I'll wait to see how retail vs used works for awhile before it becomes a commodity. A couple reviews do not make me buy something.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited May 2005
    "...14-day risk free home trial without any obligation to keep it for the first 14 days."

    How generous of them. :rolleyes:
    Never Forget
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2005
    90 days would show some balls....you can eat up shipping in 14 days, dependent on location.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • pjdami
    pjdami Posts: 1,894
    edited May 2005
    Yeah, 14 days isn't really enough time to even break it in.

    Zero, could have been the stock tubes or something. Tube changes have a big effect in my 6922 / 6DJ8 tube pre with SS amp configuration. Didn't your buddy Hantra have one? I thought that was him on the gon a few weeks back selling his.

    I'd love to demo one, but I'm content with the couple of tube pres that I own and their respective SS amps. If I want to change how they sound I just swap out tubes.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    That amp ROCKS.
    dk.jpg 55.7K
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    My friend Fred from the Houston Audio Society brought it up with his 'Fred Arrays' for the GPAF this weekend.

    And yes, you could call them 'power meters', however they don't show output, but rather the line voltage INPUT.

    Killer amp, a MUST own if you can swing it.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2005
    I wasn't aware of the meters' function, perhaps that was what affected Zero's perceived demo....shouldn't the dealer KNOW that attribute?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    I haven't heard it, so no comment there. I have been following the posts, etc. about it on places like Audiogon and from what I see, one either loves it or hates it. It does appears to me as if it's getting over hyped, but the biggest thing I've noticed is a lot of them are being resold rather quickly for a greatly reduced price. That in and of itself tells me a lot.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited May 2005
    For having a SS power stage, the specs kinda suck... I mean, only 150 watts w/ .1%THD? 35khz for the -1db response? 90db s/n?

    Spec don't tell the whole story, but those aren't anywhere near what they should be for what that thing costs. Gimme bryson or Rotel + $1000 worth of preamp of your choice over this thing.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    Are you insane? The human ear cannot discern less than .5% THD. One half, of one percent. Are you hearing anything at 35Khz? No. 90db s/n is also far greater than a human can detect.

    Oh, and the measly 150 watts? All class A, c'mon now.

    I love how manufacturers ran with 'specs' in the 70's and 80's, and didn't teach the public anything along the way. A good example is the THD wars with Solid state amps/receivers. Introduce a bunch of negative feedback into the design - you can get those numbers REAL low - and F up the sound in the process.

    Not saying this will beat anything, or its the best, yada yada yada - but those that haven't heard it for themselves need only comment on how it looks.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited May 2005
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say anything w/o hearing it, but weak specs on a SS amp make me suspect- Altough I will admit I missed that was Class A the whole way.

    As for the THD- .1% at 1khz, means .3-.5% at 20khz. So 150watts on that amp means you're running out of headroom.

    About the looks- what's up with the big fins sticking off the front? They're not supposed to be part of the heatsinks are they?
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    Originally posted by unc2701
    As for the THD- .1% at 1khz, means .3-.5% at 20khz. So 150watts on that amp means you're running out of headroom.

    Huh?

    The fins on the front are rack handles. At 82lbs, you'll need them to move it around.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited May 2005
    AudioAdvisor carries this integrated now. Looks very interesting, and if sounds as robust as it looks, it should be a brute.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    SPECS:

    Type Solid State amp/Vacuum Tube preamp
    Configuration Dual Mono (partial)
    Power Supply Transformer 0.7kVA
    Power Supply Capacitance 50,000µF
    Class of operation - Preamplifier Pure Class A
    Class of operation - Amplifier Pure Class A
    Input Device Types - Preamplifier 6922
    Input Sensitivity 300mV - 3.3V RMS
    Damping Factor > 200
    Signal-to-noise Ratio 94dB @ full power
    Maximum Output Voltage 32 Volts
    Maximum Current - Peak 18 amperes
    Maximum Current - Continuous 10 amperes
    Frequency Response 20Hz -20kHz ±0.1db
    Frequency Response 10Hz - 95kHz -2db/-3dB
    Crosstalk @ 1kHz -66dB
    IMD unmeasurable
    THD (20Hz - 20kHz @ 1 watt) < 0.05%
    THD (20Hz - 20kHz @ 150 watts) < 0.1%

    Available Faceplate Finish Silver
    Standard Remote Control All-Aluminum Simple Function

    Power Consumption @ idle 85 Watts
    AC Power Requirements 120V / 60Hz 240V / 50Hz
    Warranty 5 Years


    Not exactly what I'd call a high current amp, but it is Class A.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    Jesse, you amaze me sometimes.

    Please explain what you think high current is, and how it relates to the specs above.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2005
    I don't think that resale is really a factor at this point....unless someone here knows the actual sales figures and distribution. It is simply like every other piece of gear that ends up on the 'Gon.

    Hype? Of course, it's new, and I agree. Monster Cable had the same "hype" about their power amplifiers and a huge marketing machine moving across the country in support.....and I don't recall a discussion about them.


    Ah...the slaves of specifications.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    Maximum Current - Peak 18 amperes
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    What did I tell you he was going to say Doro?

    A man needs to have a grasp of how different classes of amplifiers run, and what numbers for current, power supply, and capacitance are relevant to those classes.

    Funny stuff.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited May 2005
    There is no standard to measure current, wattage, or distortion.

    Everyones is different.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    What did I tell you he was going to say Doro?

    A man needs to have a grasp of how different classes of amplifiers run, and what numbers for current, power supply, and capacitance are relevant to those classes.


    Yeah, well excuse me for the short response, but I had to get the hell outta here to meet Troy at Polk HQ, BS with Paul, Al, Justin, Dan and of course the man, Ken. Then off to eat some excellent brisket at a Jewish deli, followed by hooking up with Mike and then a trip to Jolida to demo gear.

    I'll tell you what Russ, since you seem to know and understand all of the above, how about you explain it to me/us in detail?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    Nah, who cares at this point. Certainly not I. Amp sucks, don't buy it.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    That's what I thought. What I'd tell ya Mike and Troy?

    Funnier stuff. :D
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2005
    *insert Jesse's favorite, over-used saying here*

    That's what I'll chalk it up to. Dead Horse, beating, that whole thing.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • pjdami
    pjdami Posts: 1,894
    edited May 2005
    Now, now, you two need to cut that out and behave yourselves;)

    Specs, shmecks... I'm all about TONE. Its a plus to have an amp that blows your pants off but the music better have tone. I rarely push any of my systems past 90 db for listening so I can try to save my ears for my later years.

    Cool pics Russ and thanks for the feedback. Damn you've been getting exposed to all kinds of cool gear. Good for ya.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    Nah, come on Russ. I quess I don't know what you have impiled that you do, so educate us.

    BTW, The only reason I posted the specs is there seemed to be some confusion about them. I think most folks know that specs are a guide and not the bottom line.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited May 2005
    Meanwhile back at the thread...

    Alledged story on the meters tracking the input is that it was an eff up in the production drawings that was not caught until the run was underway. Rather than refit and retool (expensive) they decided to roll with it and use it as a product differentiation point. The display, with one red and one yellow wand dancing on the same meter, reminded me of Star Wars.

    I heard the exact same set up Russ did when Fred "the speaker makin' man" hosted the Lonestar Bottlehead meet a couple Saturday's ago and then again a week later when I relieved Fred of the nasty, old, tube amp the DK replaced.

    The DK is one fine, integrated power plant. Definitely a worthy entry on the "someday" list. Definitely worth seeking out for an audition.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2005
    I find a couple key books to be useful when dealing with specifications and knowledge....there are of course others(e.g. Morgan Jones' and Sloans' books), but own just a couple, then one can answer almost any question with sound mind and conviction. See ya!

    High Power Audio Amplifier Construction - Sloan

    Audio Power Amplifer Handbook - Self

    The Tube Amp Book - Pittman
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited May 2005
    Well I think its all about the Damping factor being GT 200.:rolleyes:

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited May 2005
    So "Book Master", what is the answer?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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