new speakers making amp shut down

jetsman
jetsman Posts: 1
edited April 2005 in Speakers
I recently swapped some monitor 40s for some rt55is as the front speakers to my surround sound system( kenwood 407 100w a channel its older but it just keeps working) and now it seems like the rt55is must be drawing too much current . the sound from the rt55is is definetly an improvement (much improved mid range) however as far as loudness goes the whole system shuts down at 30db headroom this never happened with the monitor 40s.

has anyone encountered this .if so what can be done . what surround amp would have better results for around $500 .
Post edited by jetsman on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,846
    edited April 2005
    If you are using bare speaker wire, make sure that you don't have any strands that may be shorting between the speaker terminals or the chassis of your receiver. One time I had this problem and found that a couple copper strands of wire were touching one of the chassis screws on the back of my reciever grounding out.

    The RT55i shouldn't draw much more than the monitor 40s. At least not enough to make the receiver shut down.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    I'd be willing to bet that the RT55i's impedance dips lower than the Monitor 40's and your receiver doesn't have the grunt to drive them as loud, therefore kicking in the protection circuit.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited April 2005
    I can only comment from experience, Kenwood can't handle the load. They used to help define audio, but they lost their edge ages ago.

    I would suggest, invest. I would keep the Kenwood for another day, or another room.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dipiazza
    dipiazza Posts: 363
    edited April 2005
    Id go with BillBill check to see that there is no bare speaker wire touching even the back of your reciever, many units have built in protection that will automatically shut the reciever off when there is an improper connection, just check to see that all your copper is under control.
    Terps Swimming!
    HT Setup
    TV: Vizio VX32L
    Reciever: Pioneer VSX-D914
    HD-DVD Player: Toshiba HD-A2
    Fronts: Polk R50s
    Surounds: Polk R30s
    Center: Polk R20's
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39PCi

    2CH Setup
    Integrated: Onix SP3 Tube
    CD Player: Sony CDP-CX355
    Speakers: Onix Strata Mini in PR Finish
    Signal Cable: Classic Speaker, Analog 1 IC

    Headphones
    Grado SR 60, Bang & Olufsen A8, Shure e3

    Other Stuff in Use
    Onix xls, Dual Onix x-subs, Onix Ref .5, Dahlquist M903, Teac A-1D, Marantz 1060
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited April 2005
    got your solution right here my friend.

    http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4008751

    got to be the best receiver you can buy for the money- hands down- especially at $350 nothing else is even close.

    Factory Warranty is good through these guys to as they are an authorized dealer.

    =)
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • jcaut
    jcaut Posts: 1,849
    edited April 2005
    The 55i's impedance does dip pretty low-- Probably a little lower than the M40's. If nothing else has changed: No bare wires touching each other or the chassis, etc., then you need a better amp. IMO, you need a better amp anyway, regardless of what's causing the shut-down problem, as the 55i's really sound a lot better with high current amplification.

    Nobody's mentioned ventilation. Does your receiver have breathing room? If the 55i's are drawing more current, a little better airflow might be the difference between going into "protect" or not.

    Jason
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited April 2005
    jcaut has a good point- "protection" is almost always a thermal trigger so the cheapest fix is to put a fan on your amp- the more air you can move over those heatsinks, the more you can crank it.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    If there were bare wires touching each other he wouldn't be able to get to "30db headroom" as the receiver would go into protection as soon as it was turned on.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited April 2005
    Originally posted by unc2701
    jcaut has a good point- "protection" is almost always a thermal trigger so the cheapest fix is to put a fan on your amp- the more air you can move over those heatsinks, the more you can crank it.

    this isn't true.. if a amp doesn't have enough balls to run speakers that might dip to 4 or 6 ohms.. then adding a fan to help keep it cool isn't going to solve the problem. the amp just doesn't have big enough gonads. :)
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • jcaut
    jcaut Posts: 1,849
    edited April 2005
    What db says above, is true. More airflow won't cure a weak amp, but no airflow might kill it. Or make it shut down at least.

    It's just that the RT55i's shouldn't be THAT difficult a load- I would think that the Kenwood should drive them to reasonably loud levels without muting itself, unless there's something else going on,.. like maybe heat buildup. Perhaps bass-boost induced clipping, or something.

    If it's truly that gutless then I figure it would have trouble with Monitor 40's as well. But if it was operating just on the ragged edge anyway, airflow could be the difference between shutting down or not.

    Jason
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gshisme
    gshisme Posts: 1,038
    edited April 2005
    To chime in here...My H/K 320 at 55 per channel is doing the 55i's, 800i's and CS400 just fine thank you. I must add that the H/K only shutdown once and was no fault of the receiver. Heat build-up was the culprit. I gave it more breathing room and has been singing just fine ever since.

    Greg
    suds, suds and more suds!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gshisme
    gshisme Posts: 1,038
    edited April 2005
    To chime in here...My H/K 320 at 55 per channel is doing the 55i's, 800i's and CS400 just fine thank you. I must add that the H/K only shutdown once and was no fault of the receiver. Heat build-up was the culprit. I gave it more breathing room and has been singing just fine ever since.

    Greg
    suds, suds and more suds!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gshisme
    gshisme Posts: 1,038
    edited April 2005
    To chime in here...My H/K 320 at 55 per channel is doing the 55i's, 800i's and CS400 just fine thank you. I must add that the H/K only shutdown once and was no fault of the receiver. Heat build-up was the culprit. I gave it more breathing room and has been singing just fine ever since.

    Greg
    suds, suds and more suds!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,846
    edited April 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    If there were bare wires touching each other he wouldn't be able to get to "30db headroom" as the receiver would go into protection as soon as it was turned on.

    Not entirely true. With my Denon, the first time I hooked it up, I accidentally had a couple of strands of copper touching one of the chassis screws. It turned on and played fine until I turned it up, then it shut down almost immediately.

    If Jetsman ever checks back, maybe we will know for sure.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited April 2005
    You've chimed in enough.....haahaa j/k with you

    Yea a fan won't help, just because you are emoving the heat, doesn't mean the amp isn't still making it. Get an amp with more balls :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    If one has something shorting out like bare wires, the receiver will shut down right away. A short situation like that has got nothing to do with volume level.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    .
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    ..
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    ...
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    All fixed.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,846
    edited April 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    If one has something shorting out like bare wires, the receiver will shut down right away. A short situation like that has got nothing to do with volume level.

    I beg to differ. I already stated my previous experience, I'm not BS'ing. There has to be enough current flowing between the short to trigger the safety shutoff. If there is only a couple of strands touching, then the current is very limited until the voltage is raised.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    I'll tell you what, you short out the binding posts with the volume turned all the way down and tell me what happens. I already know.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gshisme
    gshisme Posts: 1,038
    edited April 2005
    I'm done chiming.....I hope :confused:
    suds, suds and more suds!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited April 2005
    F1, I gotta side w/ billbillw on this one... On some amps it might trigger right away, but you gotta have enough current going through there to trip it. I had this happen with one of mine and it was one or two strands just barely touching.

    As for the heat issue, nope, a fan won't make it sound better, but it'll keep a low current amp from tripping well before you get into big distortion issues.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,846
    edited April 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    I'll tell you what, you short out the binding posts with the volume turned all the way down and tell me what happens. I already know.

    I've already stated what happens. With my previous experience, the receiver played at low volume, but immediatly shut down when I raised the volume. Why do you think I bothered to post here?
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    Originally posted by billbillw
    Why do you think I bothered to post here?

    I don't know, why?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,846
    edited April 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    I don't know, why?

    F1: It was a rhetorical question, but I guess I better explain what that means to you:

    I HAD SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR HAPPEN TO ME, SO I POSTED MY OPINION ON ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION FOR THIS GUY.

    We are not talking about the entire wire shorting between the terminals, just a few strands, and if you look at my original post, I was talking about the strands touching the chassis or a chassis screw, not the other terminal.

    You may have been around a lot longer and know a little, or a lot more than I do, but you don't know everything! UNC has had this happen too.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited April 2005
    As was mine.

    Anything is possible I suppose and I thank you for giving yet another reason to never use bare wire.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter