What equipment does Polk use?

jrausch

When Polk designs and tests their speakers, is there particular audio equipment that they are using to get the most out them? When they demo their units to new customers they must have a preferred system. B&W uses Rotel to show off their units and Martin Logan tends to use Krell. Unless this is top secret, I would sure like to know what they use and why?

Peace,
Jer

Micah Cohen

We use lots of stuff. Assorted Onkyo, Marantz & Pioneer Elite electronics scattered throughout the building.

But the main serious listening is done with a Theta Casablanca II preamp/processor and Conrad Johnson solid state amp.

Matt prefers a Meridian preamp.

George has commented that a lot of this advanced electronics is besides the point: that some of it is too good or too complex for what we are setting out to do (that is, making quality speakers at a reasonable price). He may have a point -- that you don't have to have all this bells & whistles audiophile equipment to get good Polk sound -- but I'm sure everyone here would prefer to do their serious listening on this high end stuff.

Now you know.

Micah

PS -- the building is highly secure and I've submitted a list of your names to the building manager, so don't even think about it suckers.

wangotango68

for most of us who have not seen the polk building do you have any pics of the outside of the factory? just curious as to what it looks like.

scott:cool:

jrausch

Ask an honest question, get an honest answer. It just seems logical to have customers use similar equipment to what you design with to fully realize the quality of sound that you have intended for your listeners.

Kudos’ to you and your commitment to great sound and a quality web site.
I can now finish my report to Bose laboratories.



Just kidding,
Jer

rskarvan

Excellent thread.

Micah, why a Conrad Johnson amp for serious listening?
CJ's are colored and warm (very pleasant sounding).
I would think you would want an analytically precise amp
(neutral) to do critical evaluation of speakers. While a CJ amp would make a very nice setup... it wouldn't be my amp of choice as a development tool.

Aaron

Now after you tell the guy with the SRT system with Krell amps what equipment to use you're going to tell Polk what to use?

Aaron

rskarvan

Aaron,

As you probably recall... I had no problem what-so-ever with the choice of amps powering the SRT system. Half of the equation of sound is the amps... the other half is the speakers. CJ's are infamous for their warm tube-like sound. Does it make sence to develop spkr's based upon a colored sound? I think not.
Maybe this is why Polk had to change RT tweeters to soften that "in your face" element - that was perhaps missed listening thru a CJ amp.

I do agree with the statement issued by Polk that it probably doesn't matter what sort of amps drive polk speakers. Thats not to say that different amps aren't important. Its just saying that they aren't so critically important with Polk speakers. Read into that what you may.

Ron

Troy LaMont

Great thread!

for most of us who have not seen the polk building do you have any pics of the outside of the factory? just curious as to what it looks like.

Scott,

I've seen pictures of the factory before and I trying to remember if it was in the Polk newsletter or on their website (prior to the redesign).

I'll try looking through my old issues to see if it was there. (Or maybe Micah or someone else can repost them?)

Troy

TroyD

I'm SURE that Polk develops thier speakers based on the sound of one CJ amp. That would make perfect sense.

Anyone else buy that? If so, I got a great deal on a bridge for you.

Troy

rskarvan

Quote from Micah...
"But the main serious listening is done with a Theta Casablanca II preamp/processor and Conrad Johnson solid state amp."

I would think that Polk would develop their speakers for their intended target mid-fi consumer using available receivers/equipment that are mass-marketed to the same consumer group. That would make a lot of sense.

If you want to develop the best speaker... you need the best electronics. Short of that, most anything will do nicely.

TroyD

....but do you think that the ONLY SOURCE components used in Polk R&D are CJ, Onkyo, Marantz etc.??? I think we could give them a little more credit than that.

Troy

Micah Cohen

Like I said, there are many different pieces of equipment in this building that Matt and the PLMs use for listening and demos. I believe that Matt probably voices his speakers using both his ear and his math knowledge -- using computers to track measurements and stuff, matching specs to cabinets and visa versa. I have no idea what I'm talking about, but maybe you get my drift.

I'm trying to get Dave D. -- one of the lab techs -- to post to this thread with more techie info on this stuff.

Check back issues of The Speaker Specialist newspaper, issue 5, for images of the factory.

MC

wangotango68

i allready saw that micah, one all your free time you have take some pics of the outside of the building. plleeaassee?????


scott:)

joe logston

wend i frist got my rt20p polks i run them on my aragon 4004 mark 2 amp and my aragon 24k sp pre amp and the sound had a deep sound stage and was not in my face so it haves to do with the amp. a cheap receiver would put it in your face. because its under powered . thats the biggest problem people have the power supply. i wonder if polk uses an aragon amp it would be a better chose or comparable to cj , my opining, i heard both cj & aragon amps. if polk audio will try to use a aragon amp they will find that it is a good amp for polk speakers.

sorry for the messup, i reworded it.


thanks david

Systems

Sorry for the delay gentlemen, lots to be done here lately.

I will try to answer as many of the questions here that I see as unanswered, but if I mis something, let me know and I will tell you what I can.

rskarvan: To clarify a little, we use solid state CJ amps including the MF-2600 and the MF-5600. These amps use FETs which, according to the CJ website: <http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/current-products.html>

are selected for their high voltage gain and the veritable lack of noticable odd ordered harmonic distortion (the bad kind) leaving the musically natural even ordered distortions to do their bidding. This piece of engineering is what gives them something of a tube amp feel as tubes exhibit the some harmonic charecteristics. Also, they use bipolar transistors in the output stage giving a very satisfying and responsive bass response.

There are also some reviews from discerning folks like yourselves that you can link to from the CJ website...my favorite:

"If you like full-bodied vocals, harmonically correct midrange, precise and natural highs and dynamic bottom end, then you should seriously consider this amp. One of the best ss amps on the south side of 5K."

On the other hand, you have made a very good point on several issues with testing. When we are doing purely quantitative analysis on a system, we use crown microtech amps and stuart. The main reason is the flat response up through 30kHz. This allows us to see the true response of the samples tested and catch things like pesky bright tweeters.

Also, rskarvan and TroyD bring up a good point that we like to listen with representative amps for the market the product is being speced for. While we don't have something from every company that is out there, we do have a range of recievers, amps and preamps from Sony, Onkyo, Meridian, Theta, Pioneer, Pioneer elite, Marantz, and others. From really pricey to the cheaper end. For the lower end, we use lower end, for the higher end we use the pricier stuffs.

Joe logston, please rewrite the last bit, I am having trouble discerning what you are asking. Thank you.

I hope that this all helps give you a better picture of what we use and what for. Thank you for your interest and keep listening.

David Domzalski
Test and Measurement Engineer

CrazyHead

Originally posted by Dave D
For the lower end, we use lower end, for the higher end we use the pricier stuffs.

David Domzalski
Test and Measurement Engineer

Thanks for the info Dave! It's great to know what you guys are doing in terms of testing and what gear you use. I am glad you test these speakers using high-end gear. It goes back to the old saying that a good front end makes all the difference. I had a pair of old RT16's I got back in the day that just last weekend were finally swapped with some LSi9's.

My question is, what gear were the LSi's (specifically, the LSi9) developed on? I have them paired up with a customized JoLida all-tube amplifier using EL34 output tubes (at the moment).

Thanks again for taking the time to come and chat with us!


-crazyhead-

joe logston

i listen to conrad- johonson tube amp, driving the big martin logan speakers. and it sounded dam good, thats where the tube amp shines, with electrotatics speakers. , with dynamic speakers it sounds to dull to me, or it seems to have a film over the sound. but with a good transister amp and dynamic speakers the highs are more airy and clean, wlth the right software it is unbeatable

juice21

great info. dave! thanks for taking the time to post.

rskarvan

Thanks David D.

Systems

Joe Logston: I have to agree. Although I have done embarrassingly little listening on tube amps (I am still just a young buck) What I have heard is a slight general muddiness in your traditional Driver/tweeter speaker. Of course each individual will feel differently about what they hear, but when it came down to it, I always enjoyed that warm if slightly obscured sound. I have never had the pleasure of listening to any electrostatics on a tube amp, but I think I will have to go make this a priority now that you have mentioned it.

Crazy: the LSi9's were extensively listened to on the CJ MF-2500 amp with several different preamp configurations. That particular CJ runs about $3500. I have been quite impressed with the sound from this setup and would not balk at buying a CJ for my home (after I pay off the student loans among other things). I know that Matthew and some of the other high guys also did some serious evaluation at home on their personal systems, but I do not know what they are packing there(actually, I am pretty sure that one of them is sporting some McIntosh hardware).
I have never listened to any of the JoLida amps, however, almost all the reviews I have ever read have been very good. Most people seem fairly impressed with the performance to price ratio. Again, I can not stress enough how personal the listening experience is, If you like how the JoLida sounds with the 9's, then keep em cranking. I personally can't wait to get my hands on a pair or two (I am thinking about doing a (4)LSi9, (2)LSiC surround system.)

I hope this helps.

Good Day Gentlemen,
Dave

CrazyHead

Thanks again for the thoughtful responses! My initial impressions of the LSi's were that they were scantly better than my old RT16's, however the more they are played and "broken in", the better they are sounding! Right now I am fighting with the odd shape of my listening environment making bass sound as if it's only coming from on particular corner of the room. I just need to make the correct adjustments to get everything back into shape (I went through this with my RT16's as well).

However, I really don't hear the dull sound that you and Joe notice with tube gear. To me, tube gear sounds, sometimes unforgivingly so, incredibly transparent and clean without the etched sound of solid state amplifiers. That, along with the odd and even ordered harmonics.

The CJ amps use EL34 tubes which, some say, have a much more robust midrange. Perhaps this is why they might sound like the highs are rolled off?

Regardless, thanks for the info!


-crazyhead-

joe logston

hi crazyhead, what center channel speaker you have, im thinking of geting 2 lsi-9 but i dont know how it would match my cs-400i center channel speaker, i would like to get 5 of them, but i cant afford to spend that much money right now. im useing 2 rt-7 on top of 2 psw-650 for mains i want to change the rt-7 to lsi-9.

thanks

Systems

Damn room accoustics DAMN THEM TO HELL!!!!

You know, I can't even remember the names of the tube amps I was listening too (I am ashamed), but my experience probably has a lot to do with where they stood in the quality spectrum or just what the manufacturer choose to use. Made the sound veiled. Thank you for the info though, I really need to learn more about tube amps.

Yeah, I have yet to hear a bad review of the LSi series. If anything most are saying that they should cost more (ok, nuff of the plug.) I guess you know about that as you have a pair.

The word I am getting from the streets is that they need a good 100 hours to break in, I generally need to have the speakers broken a little quicker so I plop them on some fancy (CD player and an amp) equipment and send them through a special break-in procedure.

I am really glad to hear that you are happy with the LSi9's. Spread the word my friend.

CrazyHead

Originally posted by Dave D
Damn room accoustics DAMN THEM TO HELL!!!!

I wish I could be comfortable saying that myself! I think it's this new room that my gear is in, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out...

Mids and bass seem to be focused on the far left of the room even though both speakers are placed correctly.

Each speaker is, and I have measured this, 3 feet from the rear wall, three feet from the side walls at exactly equal angles. I've toed them in, toed them out, even had them firing perpendicular to the rear wall. No difference. Bass continues to pour forth from the left speaker. I've moved the speaker from the left to the right and the right speaker to the left yet the problem still occurs. It's like the right side of the room has a bass vacuum of somekind. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Some might say it's my tube amp, but it happens with a regular receiver as well.

No slanted or vaulted ceilings, the floor is the same all around. I am sitting right in the middle, equal distance from the speakers on both sides. Technically, this should be perfect... but damnit... the bass is sucked away on the right side.

This requires further study.


-crazyhead-

nascarmann

Mr Dave D,

How about at the next board meeting go in and suggest that Polk Audio do a "special aniversary addition" SDA Series? Bring back the 1.2 and 2.3 and 1C's for a year and let everybody stock-up for the next 25 years! Anyone else agree?

Aaron

Each speaker is, and I have measured this, 3 feet from the rear wall, three feet from the side walls at exactly equal angles.

You generally shouldn't place speakers equal distances from the rear and side walls. This could be your problem. Check out this link from Cardas on speaker placement.

Speaker Placement

Aaron

Systems

Good man Aaron. Another huge factor is the room geometry. We have a room here that is almost a perfect cube...I guess it might be good for storage or something.

joe logston

crazyhead , did you check your speaker cables & interconnects i had the same problem it was a loose wire inside of the speaker that went to the binding post from inside. then i got to checking and they were all lose, and some times the interconnects geted bump and they get loose, the speaker will play but it will be out of balance.

CrazyHead

Originally posted by joe logston
crazyhead , did you check your speaker cables & interconnects i had the same problem it was a loose wire inside of the speaker that went to the binding post from inside. then i got to checking and they were all lose, and some times the interconnects geted bump and they get loose, the speaker will play but it will be out of balance.

Thanks for these suggestions, joe. I'll give them a try this evening and see if it makes any difference. I'm really going crazy over this damn imbalance. Of course, my name is crazyhead so...


-crazyhead-

gidrah

Jer - Great question.
Dave D - Good info. Thanks.
Nascarman - Sign me up. I'd settle for a seperate SDA dividing network type thing. SDA a pair of side-by-side LSi9.
Aaron - Good catch.
CrazyHead - Have you tried swapping L&R?

ctbarker32

This is a fun discussion.

After reading good things about various Polk speakers I decided to try out a pair of RTi35's to mate with my Jolida Integrated tube amp in my living room system. After my purchase it occurred to me that half of this system is made by companies headquartered in Maryland. As a longtime Maryland resident I found this kind of fun! I know this is an odd way to purchase hi-fi equipment but it is interesting. I'm kind of thinking about trying to find another Maryland company to purchase a CD player from. Then I could be almost 100% Maryland! I know Jolida makes a tube CD player. I wonder if there is another company?

I could venture across the Potomac and have a hybrid Maryland/Virginia system using such brands as Conrad Johnson/McCormack?

Actually, I am a long time Polk customer. I owned a pair of Model 10's in my high school years (70's). Even though my main stereo (soon to be Home Theater) system uses Martin Logan Aerius and Rel strata III sub, I enjoy swapping things out in my living room system currently with the RTi35's. I am now becoming interested in the LSi9's. Just read Cordesman's review in Absolute Sound. Cordesman, btw, lives in Virginia. When he's not reviewing sound he's defence analyst that has appeared on ABC, etc. Looks a little like Tom Clancy as I remember.

Polk should partner with Jolida and promote Maryland audio!

-CB