Audioholics website

PolkFreak

I went to the Audioholics website a while back and the people there that are "supposed" to know their stuff are half-**** in their study of audio. Some of the new people here know more than your average Audioholic veteran. What they lack in education they make up in imagination. I made one post there and that will be the last one. People that are new to audio get wonderful misleading advice at the Audioholic website. Its like newbie leading newbie. I can't believe their lack of reading comprehension. Look at this thread:


http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2775


Dorokusai is right on once again with his statement of them which is what reminded me of my experiance in reading there
and inspired my thread here. The following is a quote from

Dorokusai:
Audioholics.com....the Home of the Non-Believer.

Their motto should be Sony Boomboxes for all!

That statement came from the, "How do you measure a cable"?
thread.



I see that their Moderator believes the biggest misconception among people that form their option around their lack of education. That misconception is about amp power. He seems to think that having a smaller amp will keep you from burning out the speakers. He thinks it is impossible to burn a speaker out with an amp that is under the speaker rating and only worries if the amp is too powerful. Unreal! I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding what he is saying? If I am, I'm sorry for being asleep at the wheel.

Edit: Forgot to mention that my post is the last one in the above
Audioholics thread. I'm 80'sPolk....

RuSsMaN

Forget the 12 oclock stuff.

Clipping is the word you are looking for, and you are more likely to clip an amp with less power, than one with more power (all things equal).

I wouldn't bother even posting over there, good luck, should you choose to continue.

Cheers,
Russ

PolkFreak

Please bear with me as I put this together and buy the end you will know I now understand and thank you very much for calling that to my attention. The father I went into this post the more I put it together so it might seem a bit cloudy at first.




RuSsMaN, could I get a 2 o'clock?
Would that be a better reference?

Did I word that Audioholics post in such a way that lead you to
believe that I thought otherwise because the thing you said was what I was trying to say?

You said, "you are more likely to clip an amp with less power, than one with more power (all things equal)".

Your above comment is the very thing I was pointing out.

Heres what I said,"Regardless of the amps size the 12 o'clock rule applies to large and small amps. It is a common misconception that overpowering speakers is worse than under powering them. This statement is NOT TRUE. When you run speakers on an underpowered amp and turn it past the 12 o'clock position it runs uncontrolled current which is PURE distortion through the speakers. This is more harmful than overpowering the speaker".

Please exclude my dumb 12 o'clock position and insert the proper one. After that you will notice I was saying something simalar to what you said, "all things equal".

I said the same rule applies to amps large or small. This is my version of , "all things equal". Unless maybe somehow your , "all things equal" was trying to say something different that I'm not seeing?

I also stated the common MISCONCEPTION that overpowering
them" IS NOT TRUE. So the word, "misconception" is saying that the statement is NOT TRUE. I then wrote, "This statement is NOT TRUE". And now I see where I went wrong and I canceled out my hole point because I said, "This statement is NOT TRUE". What I was trying to do was point out all over again the fact that the statement itself WITHOUT the word, "MISCONCEPTION" "Overpowering speakers is worse than underpowering them" was NOT TRUE which I did not need to do and I omitted the word, "misconception" IN MY OWN MIND when I said, "This statement is NOT TRUE" in which I was trying to say that the statement "overpowering speakers is worse than underpowering them" IS NOT TRUE. But because of my BAD English screw up it made it LOOK like I was saying I DIDN'T THINK
THAT "Overpowering speakers is worse than underpowering them" WAS A MISCONCEPTION AT ALL!!!!! MAN!!!! I need to go edit that Audioholics post right away!!!! I'm looking dumber than I already am!!!



Yes, I do understand that the statement, "Overpowering speakers is worse than underpowering them" IS A MISCONCEPTION!!!!!

WoW, everytime someones head is rolling off their shoulders you,
"THE RuSsMaN" and Dorokusai's heads stay bolted on tight.
Way to keep your head on strait and help me find my own!
I think I found your baseball!
Thank you very much RuSsMaN!!!

RuSsMaN

I know where you were coming from, I was trying to help you find the words to communicate with the mouth breathers. Believe me, I've had a LOT of practice - most of it fruitless, but every now and then you find a good soul worth saving.

Don't thank me, thank the people I learned from.

Cheers,
Russ

Dennis Gardner

Overpowering speakers causes damage due to over heating the voice coils. This is less likely to happen since a well designed speaker can usually handle more clean power than its rating.

Underpowering speakers damages them due to distortion. The waveforms sent to an amp when clipping, is destructive and closest to a square wave since the top of the wave is clipped off. This type of wave is one of the hardest for speakers to tolerate and reproduce and thus stresses the speaker, when combined with high output.

A nice article on this is put into easy terms on Elliott Sounds website.

Why Tweeters Blow

Basically stated, amps producing clean, strong waveforms to speakers do far less damage than underpowerd amps sending clipped, square waves to the speakers, at the same volume.

PolkFreak

Thanks to the both of you for the info and help! Any lack of learning that I am doing in home audio is do to the fact of not running into the info that I need. I don't bother much with a lot of
the Internet info because it is given from people that I couldn't consider a text book like reference. What everyone on earth could use is a , "HOLY BIBLE OF AUDIO". I believe some exsist
because I think Dorokusai and RuSsMaN both at one time or another mentioned at least a couple that should be in every home audio lovers book collection. I wonder if I could get them used for 50 cents somewhere:D I know that I do understand all of the basics I need to know to have my system tweaked to its max. Speaking of, have any of you had any experiance demo wise
maybe from a store or a friends house of the Rotel RA 920AX?
I'm in the process of getting the RA 920AX and was wondering how it's power output would be like against my digital Yamaha
RX-V440 AVR? Rotel seems to be known for rating their amps at less than what they are. My RA 920AX is rated at 35 WPC @ 4 ohm. My Yamaha is rated at 150 WPC @ 4 ohm. It also rates 75 WPC @ 8 ohm. The 8 ohm rating doesn't matter to me because my Polks run at 4 ohm nominal as a good speaker should IMO.
I won't get into that because its a whole other can of worms and my personal peference. I thought I remember hearing that Yamahas were rated exactly what they are rated at with possibly a little power to spare. Shouldn't the Rotel be just about as loud as the Yamaha in my small room? I'm also wondering how the Rotels sound will hold up to the Yamaha? They are a bit different in terms of technology. About ten years difference in age too.
One last thing! It kind of upsets me that the average joe dosen't
know about Polk Audio. Polk Audio claims to sell to 50 countries around the world on the back of my LSi 9 manual. Do you guys know what they are rated at as far as USA sales in home and car audio? Cheers as I take a sip of experated virtual green beer.

Danny Tse

Do you guys know what they are rated at as far as USA sales in home and car audio?

Actually, I do know. But I am not sure whether it's considered some kind of industry secret. Let's just say, in terms of home audio speakers, Polk Audio is up there. And the leader's name doesn't start with the letter "B". That's all I will say.

PolkThug

The only speaker I've ever blown (15" Fosgate) was because I was pushing a weak amp too hard. I was 16 at the time and learned my lesson.

PolkFreak

Danny Tse, it was just a simple question. I didn't think it was a secret until you stated that you knew and decided not to tell me;)
I'm guessing that they are in the top 10 as far as speaker sales.
I'm thankful that the leaders name doesn't start with the letter "B" because I might be inclined to think his name was Binladin or **** and that wouldn't be such a good thing.
You could add those two names together if you want and come up with something interesting:D You can switch the names around too!

Cheers!

shack

I didn't think it was a secret until you stated that you knew and decided not to tell me

You don't know the secret handshake do you?

I don't know much about the mobile audio stuff, but I would have to think Harman International would rank up there with their Infinity, Revel, JBL and Harman/Kardon brands (as well as some off brand stuff). Like it or not, Sony, Pannasonic etc...and all the other MAJOR players sell lots of speakers just because they are everywhere. I would think the big speaker ONLY players would be Polk, Klipsch, Boston, B&W, Paradigm, and maybe even Advent and AR as far as number of units sold in the US. It really wouldn't suprise me if some no name mfgr. that markets through Wal-Mart, Kmart, Target and such would be the market leader. We have to remember that not everyone is crazy for quality audio like most of us...you know....the speakers are speakers and they are all pretty much the same crowd.

PolkFreak

I agree Shack, those mass market cheap speakers are runnin the
street! On another note I made another correction on a post the
Moderator of the Audioholics website made and I think I made a
really good point. I thought my one post would be the last, but I
had to on this one. Please check it out here:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57721&posted=1#post57721

ohskigod

Originally posted by PolkThug
The only speaker I've ever blown (15" Fosgate) was because I was pushing a weak amp too hard. I was 16 at the time and learned my lesson.

yeah, i've been there. i popped a tweeter on a pair of Technics 3 way speakers with a 35WPC technics reciever that i was driving way too hard. I was 15 and dumb as a stump