SVS vs HSU? Any actual experience?

billbillw

My little Energy s8.2 sub is really not cutting it since I moved. I added a second recently hoping to improve the response in room, but my room is just too big. The room is about 20'x20' with 13' vaulted ceilings and open to kitchen/dining/hallway. I'm quite sure that I will never be able to pressurize this area within my budget, but I know I can get deeper/cleaner bass with a single more powerful sub.

I've looked at what is available for less than $500 and the only standouts I see are the SVS PSB10 and the HSU VTF-2 MkII. Maybe a used SVS PCi tube, but not many are selling theirs.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had actual experience with both of these subs and if there was a preference. From limited reviews, it looks like the SVS is a little deeper and possibly flatter response, but the HSU has the extra feature of tunable ports and speaker inputs. If there are any other recommendations in this price range, I'm open to suggestion. By the way, the little S8.2 was a great performer when it was in a 200 sq foot room with normal ceilings, but its just not enough in the larger room.

steveinaz

I had the 25-31PC+ in a similar sized room (14 x 28, 12 ft vaulted cieling). It had more than enough balls to pressurize the room. Can't speak about the HSU, never had one. I will say that SVS customer service is outstanding---might be a consideration for your purchase.

Willow

this is justa thought but how long ago did you buy your newest sub? is it at a place that has a trade-up program ? sonthing to consider if the case.

Mazeroth

All your prayers have been answered:

http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/

Early B.

I've had both SVS (PB12) and Hsu (STF-2 and VTF-2). For HT, either one will be fine if your budget is $500 or less. For music, I'd go for the Hsu. Hadn't heard the PB10, but I'd recommend that you get the PB12 for your room size. It's a little over your budget, but definitely worth it. Alternatively, I've seen brand new Hsu STF-2's on ebay and audiogon for about $350 including shipping (I bought one!). Can't go wrong with either one. Just comes down to price. Oh yeah, if you go for Hsu, forget about the tunable ports on the VTF-2 and get the less expensive STF-2.

pjdami

Check out this thread over at another forum by Dr. Spec (Edward J M). He reviewed several subs (look at his sig for the subs you are interested in).

BTW, I have a STF-2 in a smaller room and like it very much. In the larger living room similar to your sized room, it sounded pretty good most of the time but was strained under severe HT scenes. These movies were watched at -15 db reference volumes.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190398

billbillw

Willow,
It was bought used via Audiogon. No tradeup. My trade up will be through sales of the Energys

Mazeroth, What the hell was that?

Early, doesn't the STF-2 have a less powerful amp as well as the lack of tunable ports?

Thanks for the other input, this will likely be down the rd. a bit.

lomic

I may be selling my STF-2 "down the road a little bit" depending on some factors. It is an insanely great sub for music, and based on that premise alone I'm not completely sure I'll sell it - but watching Master and Commander at reference levels the STF-2 is indeed straining a bit - no one else watching the movie noticed it, but during the storm scene I was gritting my teeth not for the action, but for my sub, hoping it wouldn't explode Didn't bottom out or anything, I could just tell it was working about as hard as it could. Anyway, if I do sell it I'd probably ask $300 shipped so drop me a PM if you may be interested in the next few months so I'll keep it in mind.

Whadyasay

I had an STF-2, and now have an SVS PB10-ISD, which I find to be better for both movies and music.

tryrrthg

Originally posted by billbillw
Mazeroth, What the hell was that?

I think Mazeroth wants you to look at an IB (Infinite Baffle) sub. IB subs produce some of the best bass in the world (or so I've read) You basically use an adjacent room as the sub. Lots of drivers move LOTS of air. Distortion is very very low. You get the "speed" of a sealed sub and the extension of a ported sub. I'd have one in a heartbeat if my home would allow it.

billbillw

Originally posted by tryrrthg
I think Mazeroth wants you to look at an IB (Infinite Baffle) sub.

IB is not an option for me.

billbillw

After doing some more digging, I've now opened up my price range to $600, which now includes the Outlaw LFM-1 and of course the SVS PB12 or PCi 25-31.

I also saw some reviews of the Rocket UFW-10, but I don't think that will go low enough in my large room and for HT it wouldn't satisfy me. Boy is it pretty though and it supposedly is great for music.

Anyone here have any experience with the Outlaw? I'm reading that it is cleaner for music compared to the PCi 25-31 (and presumably the PB12), but not at powerful down low.

Early B.

I have the Rocket UFW-10 on a 2-channel system and it's awesome for music. It replaced a Hsu STF-2 which was almost as good. I would not recommend the Rocket for HT, though.

For HT, go with an SVS PB12.

Early, doesn't the STF-2 have a less powerful amp as well as the lack of tunable ports?

Don't be too concerned about the power ratings of amps or the lack of a tunable port. IMO, the tunable port is primarily a marketing gimmick and not very practical. Most people just leave one of the ports plugged all the times anyway.

kingtut

Originally posted by Early B.
... Don't be too concerned about the power ratings of amps or the lack of a tunable port. IMO, the tunable port is primarily a marketing gimmick and not very practical. Most people just leave one of the ports plugged all the times anyway.

It's true. I plug one of the ports on my VTF3 MK II for maximum extension, and most people over the Hsu Forum poll indicated that they have one of the ports plugged also. One of the Hsu's Rep on the Hsu forum indicated that they will have some kind of "turbo attachment" upgrade kit that supposedly make the VTF series (not STF) go even lower in the bass region -- not sure when they will come out.

You can't go wrong w/either Hsu or SVS.

billbillw

So nobody here has any experience with the Outlaw sub?

Right now, I'm leaning towards the SVS PCi 25-31. I've got a spot that it will fit perfect and my wife has no objections to the shape.

Early B.

The room is about 20'x20' with 13' vaulted ceilings and open to kitchen/dining/hallway.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the SVS PCi 25-31. I've got a spot that it will fit perfect and my wife has no objections to the shape.

I hope the spot you picked out is close to the primary seating position. Otherwise, your room may swallow up that "bite-size" sub.

wingnut4772

Lokk at the Outlaw LFM 1. I have one and the SPL is off the charts. It was co-designed by HSU also and has received very good reviews.

billbillw

Originally posted by Early B.
I hope the spot you picked out is close to the primary seating position. Otherwise, your room may swallow up that "bite-size" sub.

"bite-size"? Your kidding, right?

EricH

While I personally wouldn't call an SVS PCi a bite sized sub, with a room your size, it is possible to overwhelm any of the subs spoken of. Of course, it will sound great, but the unknown is how much SPL you are wanting.

My advise, try the PCi, and if it's not enough, send it back and get a bigger model.

billbillw

Originally posted by EricH
While I personally wouldn't call an SVS PCi a bite sized sub, with a room your size, it is possible to overwhelm any of the subs spoken of. Of course, it will sound great, but the unknown is how much SPL you are wanting.

My advise, try the PCi, and if it's not enough, send it back and get a bigger model.

I know that I won't be able to get really high SPL in my room without doubling or tripling my budget. I'll be satisfied with 100db as long as its tight and deep. Your suggestion is exactly why I have been considering the SVS. Their 45-day return period makes it a lot less risky to test one out.

Early B.

Bill-
Have you ordered the SVS yet?

EricH

Originally posted by billbillw
Your suggestion is exactly why I have been considering the SVS. Their 45-day return period makes it a lot less risky to test one out.

The reason they offer a 45 day return period is that once someone has one of their subs in house, they're very hard to part with. I bought a PB12Plus/2 last year having never heard an SVS. Yes, I kept it.

billbillw

Originally posted by Early B.
Bill-
Have you ordered the SVS yet?

Not yet. I'm trying to unload my two Energy S8.2 subs first. Listing on Ebay tonight along with my Take 5.2 system.

Joey_V

Go with the pci... but make sure to have it custom tuned to 22hz... thereby making it a 22-31PCi.

VR3

In a room that size your looking a PC + or PB2 ISD...

The Outlaw is the equivelant of the SVS PCi line, and it dosnt hit as loud at lower frequencies as the PCi line does...

Willow

Originally posted by billbillw
Not yet. I'm trying to unload my two Energy S8.2 subs first. Listing on Ebay tonight along with my Take 5.2 system.

You are not offering them up on the flea market ?

what are you asking for your 8's

billbillw

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
In a room that size your looking a PC + or PB2 ISD...

The Outlaw is the equivelant of the SVS PCi line, and it dosnt hit as loud at lower frequencies as the PCi line does...

Sid, thanks for the insight, but I don't have any room to put the PB2, its just too big. The PC+ is outta my price range unless someone wants to sell their 25-31PC+ for $550 or less. (Yes I know someone here is selling a 16-46PC+ for $500, but its too tall for my setup). I'll have to settle.

I'm telling you, I don't need much more bass to make me happy. Believe it or not, the S8.2s that I have now can really make things rumble in this room, I just want to clean it up and make things smoother.

Someone asked earlier if my seating position is close to where the sub will be. That is a yes. Although the room is big, all of the audio equip. and the seating is arranged in a nice cozy corner. I'm not more than 12 feet from any of the speakers.

I actually have my setup in the system showcase.

francis1967

The Dayton TItantic 12" MKIII will blow you away with HT and has the speed to quickly undeline transients listiening to pure two channel pleasures. DIY i 15-20minutes and the suib costs $350. Looks darn good too. See Parts Express.

billbillw

Originally posted by Willow
You are not offering them up on the flea market ?
what are you asking for your 8's

Naa, I didn't bother here because I didn't think there would be much of a market for them here. Especially for the Take 5.2 system. Most here seem to prefer the sound of larger speakers and I wanted to be able to offer the satellites and the sub at the same time, so they all went on Ebay.

On the 'bay, I'm trying to get at least $150 for each sub, but I have a BIN price of $200.

billbillw

Originally posted by francis1967
The Dayton TItantic 12" MKIII will blow you away with HT and has the speed to quickly undeline transients listiening to pure two channel pleasures. DIY i 15-20minutes and the suib costs $350. Looks darn good too. See Parts Express.

I did my share of DIY subs back in my days of car audio, but for the home, I want something that doesn't look "DIY". I'll gladly pay an extra hundred or two for something that I know is going to look great and perform like I expect.

McLoki

Originally posted by billbillw
The PC+ is outta my price range unless someone wants to sell their 25-31PC+ for $550 or less. (Yes I know someone here is selling a 16-46PC+ for $500, but its too tall for my setup).

I have a CS+ that I may be willing to part with if you have an amp to drive it.

Yes I know someone here is selling a 16-46PC+ for $500

And that is the only reason I would consider it. (ok, that or it try an IB sub)

Michael