B&W DM600 S3 vs Maggie MMG

organ · March 2005

Anybody know how the Beemers sound?

I had a thread about best speakers for vocals many months ago and the MMG's were strongly reccommended. I remember hearing a pair of Beemers at a friend's house (can't remember model #). It was the older type with a red LED on their logo. I loved the way vocals sound through them.

The DM600 S3 is the same price as a pair of Maggie MMG.

Now, this is going to be used purely for vocals. I don't care about bass and other stuff. I want to hear all the emotion from my favorite sopranos. Still not sure when I'll be buying, but so far the MMG are on the top of my list. Have anybody heard both?

Maurice

hoosier21 · March 2005

haven't heard the B&W's, but for vocals, MMGs are the speaker for you, placew the order and forget it.

jdhdiggs · March 2005

+1 on that one.. Hoosier, you know anything about how a 2.7QRZ compares to the MMG, the 1.6, and the 3.1? (I think I got the models right)

hoosier21 · March 2005

Sorry, I have only had or heard the MMG's 1.5QR 1.6QR 3.5R and 3.6R, never heard and don't much about the other models or the older ones.

jdhdiggs · March 2005

Ok, what's the difference between X.XQR and X.XR?

Do you know how to translate the nomenclature they use for products?

dorokusai · March 2005

I would presume that you never heard them, otherwise you wouldn't have asked such a silly question.

MMG.

hoosier21 · March 2005

1.XQR = quasi ribbon tweeter
3.XR= true ribbon tweeter

Difference? not 100%, construction, materials? price, oh yea.

I went to the Magnepan dealer as I was going to listen/buy a pair of 1.5QRs from somebody in ATL, I listened to the 1.6QRs and said yes sir, this sounds wonderful. Then made the mistake of asking to go in the 3.6R room just to hear how the big boys sounded. I was sure they would just be bigger, handle more power and have more SPL output, but not be too big sound quality difference because the 1.6QRs sounded so frigging good.

I was wrong, way wrong, the rooms were exactly the same, they had better equipment hooked up the the 3.6QRs so there was that added to the quality also, but the 3.6R were jaw dropping, superior to the 1.6QRs, I mean by a lot, hard to tell you how they sounded better, but it wasn't even close.

hoosier21 · March 2005

The MMGs, are the best damn 550.00 delivered you will ever spend on a pair of speakers, they are VERY GOOD, you have to accept the bass limitations, and choice the right material (metal heads need not apply) music with acoustic instruments, vocals, piano and the likes will sound better than anything you have heard from a box speaker. Add a good little sub and you can widen you musical selection.

1.X QR, moves you up in all areas, better SQ with the quasi ribbon driver, the sound greats smoother, soundstage goes deeper and wider, you get better dynamics with the larger panels, but for me a good sub is still needed, for some it is not.

3.XR, EVERYTHING gets better except your checkbook balance.

20.1 (I think) I never heard the top of the line model, when I was at the dealer, I made the comment about the 3.6Rs being the best speaker I ever heard, and why would anyone need to spent more than 3,500.00? or some such, he said, I thought that too until I heard the 10,0000 20.1s, Russ will never go in the 20.1 room, lol.

Find your closest dealer, and take some good CDs, close the door, and be amazed.

dorokusai · March 2005

There are two amazing deals in audio to me, and some others obviously, and I've owned or own them...the Dodd Audio Pre-Amp and the MMG's.

I "stole" the MMG's that I have now.

jdhdiggs · March 2005

No doubt about the "steal" Doro.

Russ: There is a pair of 20R's on E-bay for 6K that I keep hearing say "Hoosier, Hoosier, buy me, I promise I won't let you down" It's kinda getting tiring...

hoosier21 · March 2005

I saw those, frigging great price at 6K, my truck ain't even worth 6K, Russ has no money for those!

Who would by from JB Audio Pimp anyway? I have seen him posting a lot of great gear and at great prices at Agon, but still Audio Pimp, frig

jdhdiggs · March 2005

Sell the truck and move some gear...

pjdami · March 2005

Originally posted by hoosier21
The MMGs, are the best damn 550.00 delivered you will ever spend on a pair of speakers, they are VERY GOOD, you have to accept the bass limitations, and choice the right material (metal heads need not apply) music with acoustic instruments, vocals, piano and the likes will sound better than anything you have heard from a box speaker. Add a good little sub and you can widen you musical selection.

I think I've read enough about the MMGs from both Hoosier and Doro to convince me that this will be my next speaker adventure.

What do the MMGs like for amplification? Solid state? Tubes? I'm thinking of pairing them with my Krell integrated and the Jolida cd player. With the 86 db efficiency, it looks like solid state amplification is the way to go. I can also go tube pre and SS amp with them. I have a Hsu STF-2 that will do the sub duty for them.

How do they sound at lower volumes? Like for an home office setting. 75 db at the listening position...sometimes 80 db.

I remember reading Hoosier's review about the extended break-in period. As far as my interests in sound, midrange, acoustic instruments and piano, etc. is where my weakness and joy reside. If the MMG does that region well then it will win me over. The best box speaker that does that well that I have owned are Spendors.

hoosier21 · March 2005

I would use SS amps, I only had one tube amp, never tried it on Maggies, so I can't say for sure.

I just got a Vandersteen 2W subwoofer, many say this sub works wonders with Maggies, I have a real itch to try them again. I returned the original pair I bought, wonder if they will let me have another pair??

BTW
Good deals on the MMG's are hard to find unless you find somebody local, because the asking price of them is usually 350.00-475.00, add shipping to that and you are better off just getting a new pair with full warranty, and you get to pick the finish and sock color you want.

dorokusai · March 2005

Paul - It's a win-win for you with that speaker.

I only know what they like on this end, and that's a tube/SS combination....a little bit of warmth with giant brass balls power....always works, never fails.

I think that would be a stellar combination....go for it.

I'll throw my meter on them for different volumes and let you know later, as I never really thought about that.

hoosier21 · March 2005

Forgot to comment on the lower level listening, very good.

pjdami · March 2005

Thanks for the comments Hoosier and Doro. I've got a message with the factory right now for an order. At $550 with the upgrade policy they have and 60 day return policy its a worthwhile adventure. I'm sure I'll like them and certainly respect both of your opinions.

Detail at lower listening levels is always something I look for in a speaker too since I normally don't listen too loud.

Paul

George Grand · March 2005

No kids or pets with MMG's man. That's asking for trouble.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

dorokusai · March 2005

Zero - I'm sure you can figure that out all by yourself....just think about the speaker design for more than a minute.

jdhdiggs · March 2005

Originally posted by George Grand
No kids or pets with MMG's man. That's asking for trouble.

Only reason I'm holding off right now. A 55lb ball of hyper terror in a 600 sf apartment and maggies? No good can come of this...

jdhdiggs · March 2005

Originally posted by Zero
yea yea, hows she handle the big boy stuff - like full scale symphonies..

*drool*

The only shortcoming I heard was the dynamics aren't quite as hard as a cone system on some material (a la "tricycle") and bass below 50 falls off a cliff. In all other aspects that I care about, those mmg's (modded of course

) at Doro's were probably the best speakers I've heard to date.

tonyv1 · March 2005

I started with the MMGs and moved to the MG12s 3 months later. Sold the MMGs to a friend who plays an acoustic guitar and records his sessions. LOVES the sound of his guitar through the MMGs.
My MG12 has been modded (new crossover parts; caps, foil inductor, silver wiring, ceramic fuse and Cardas binding post). The best tweak is to stand the MMGs and MG12s upright, the soundstage will become wider and deeper (mine are the erector set stands on the MUG site). I use an Anthem PRE 2L Special Edition preamp and an Anthem AMP 2 (hybrid, tube front end) 300W at 4 ohms.

dorokusai · March 2005

I ordered some MYE stands last week.....can't wait to get them.

Tour2ma · March 2005

Paul,
Congrats on the Maggie buy... you will not regret it.

I've not heard the MMG's (looking forward to hearing doro's), but own the 1.5QR's and have spent time with the 1.6's... Takes a bit of playing with the set up, but once done they're best imaging speakers I've heard.

Great on all things acoustic (jazz, light classical, etc.), but do need a sub for full symphony. (Russ, Vandersteen's subs are what my local Maggie dealer recommends.)

As to the pet comment... my 1.5's manual actually recommends that cat owners spray repellant around their bases.

George Grand · March 2005

My ex-neighbor Dean from 3 houses down (He came out of the closet after 29 years of marraige, two college graduate daughters, and promptly got tossed out the house by Mrs. Dean. Not to be outdone by her neighbor Mrs. Dean, Mrs. Tosti from 2 houses down tossed her husband about a week ago. We have one more house before the karma gets to my location.) had four of those MMG's and a sub in one small room. Rotel 5-ch power amp through a HT receivers pre-outs. Magnificent sound, but sub required for the full monty.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

pjdami · March 2005

Factory guy called me back late today. They were swamped and couldn't take any orders today so I'll have to wait until next week.

From Magnepan's website:

The Magneplanar MMG with the equivalent surface area of 72, 1 -inch dome tweeters, and 9, 8-inch woofers does this better than speakers costing several times the MMG's modest $550/pair price tag.

Just the thought of this image makes me smile

No pets or young ones running around in my house so no problems there.

pjdami · March 2005

I've been reading a lot about crossover upgrades to the Maggies over at the MUG (Maggie User's Group). This includes capacitor upgrades and Alpha core copper foil inductors which really open up the sound according to some of the folks over there.

Anyone familiar with these mods to the MMG? Tony looks like you've done some mods. Which capacitors and inductors did you use?

Paul

dorokusai · March 2005

I know Tony is Maggie involved.....maybe he'll chime in here.

I would like to replace the binders with some heavy duty pieces....other than that, I'm going to leave them alone for the moment.

There is a modded pair on A'Gon now....

pjdami · March 2005

Originally posted by dorokusai

There is a modded pair on A'Gon now....

Ah, you've busted me:D

Yeah, I'm supposed to meet that guy this afternoon. He lives like 10 miles from me.

I talked to him last night. Basically he replaced the stock capacitor and inductor with equivalent valued upgrades. He seems to know what he is talking about so we'll see.

dorokusai · March 2005

Cool, yea they look like they were done right. Good luck, that would be sweet.

tonyv1 · March 2005

I used Solen caps and Alphacore inductors on the crossovers. The only problem is getting everthing to fit inside. I want to upgrade the caps to Hovland (they're $43 each for 10 microfarads, that's about 5 for one cap and 3 for the other, OUCH!). I've been tempted to bypass the fuse completely, maybe this weekend!
Replacing the binders is very easy, Mark. You'll need to open up the hole to fit the new binding posts. I'd recommend replacing the internal wiring also. Some of the Maggie freaks like their Maggies NAKED! No clothes on her at all.

B&W DM600 S3 vs Maggie MMG

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