Line Conditioners: Friend or Foe?

heiney9

I’ve about had it with the strange noises coming from my speakers. I have terrible AC coming out of my wall sockets. I also seem to have a lot of stray RF noise coming through my system. Not sure where these noises originate from. I’ve heard glowing stories about line conditioners increasing clarity, definition and lowering the noise floor. I’ve also heard stories about it ruing the soundstage and “choking” the system so it sounds hollow, thin and lifeless.

So what are people’s experiences and opinions? The 3 I’m most interested in are Adcom, Panamax, and Monster. But please discuss all types and brands.

Heiney9

bknauss

At least from an engineering stand point, conditioners are a wonderful thing.

As for listening, I won't comment since I haven't done A/B comparisons with conditioners vs. no conditioner.

steveinaz

I like the "effects" of the conditioner on all of my components EXCEPT the power amplifier. Conditioner's have a habit of reducing the "slam" factor of your amp, for whatever reason--I don't know. But I did experience this first hand. Now my amp is plugged directly to the wall, and the slam is back. My CDP, Tuner, Preamp, and DVD are plugged into the conditioner.

At any rate, I don't know how effective a conditioner would be if you have genuine ac line problems; buzzing, hum, etc....

Some day, if you're bored to death; pull your wall plate check the connections, then go out to your electrical box, turn off the mains, and tighten all your connections. The setscrews can and do work loose sometimes, introducing noise into your ac.

F1nut

You may want to check out the PS Audio UPC-200. It's totally passive, high current and can be set up with 2 zones which is great for keeping the power and source separate. In my case, I've experienced no negative effects and the slam actually increased.

BlueMDPicker

I also have the UPC-200 and noticed a marked reduction in noise floor with tube audio gear.

An alternative which you may also find interesting, the Transcendent Balanced Power Supply, can be found here.

unc2701

They can limit the amount of current available to your power amp... so avoid using it there until your at a last resort, then make sure the wattage/ amperage rating on the conditioner is way above what your amp pulls.

brettw22

Belkin has some good stuff out too. If you're interested in any of THESE let me know and I'll getcha a price.

heiney9

Thanks for all the replies so far. I’m not really sure if my problems are really from the AC line or if they are more related to RF interference. I’m at work now so I can’t really go into detail right now. When I get home tonight I’m going to listen to all my “noise” and then I’ll describe in better detail what I hear.

I suspect that if I did get a line conditioner I would hear a difference pos. or neg., but it may not solve my noise problems.

Heiney9

steveinaz

Definitely look at your connections in the breaker box, especially grounds. It's not at all uncommon to find a few loose ones.

stam4p5

I have a problem with too little current reaching my amplifier. When at even moderate volumes, it will significantly dim the lights at bass peaks. Do they make a power conditioner type device that can solve this (similar to a stiffening capacitor in car audio)? I realize it would be a much more complex device for an alternating current source, but my amp pulls 1350 watts, and i live in an apartment where i can't install a dedicated circuit.

jmierzur

heiney9,

Whats your budget for conditioning?

Originally posted by stam4p5
I have a problem with too little current reaching my amplifier. When at even moderate volumes, it will significantly dim the lights at bass peaks. Do they make a power conditioner type device that can solve this (similar to a stiffening capacitor in car audio)? I realize it would be a much more complex device for an alternating current source, but my amp pulls 1350 watts, and i live in an apartment where i can't install a dedicated circuit.

FYI (in no particular order):

Exactpower
MonsterPower
AudioPhile APS
PS Audio
Furman


I have looked at all but the Exactpower unit and the specific Furman unit in the link.

There is also another at a more affordable price made by ?? When I think of the name, I will post.

unc2701

Originally posted by stam4p5
I have a problem with too little current reaching my amplifier. When at even moderate volumes, it will significantly dim the lights at bass peaks. Do they make a power conditioner type device that can solve this (similar to a stiffening capacitor in car audio)? I realize it would be a much more complex device for an alternating current source, but my amp pulls 1350 watts, and i live in an apartment where i can't install a dedicated circuit.

Sorry, you're SOL... What you can do is go in the breaker box and figure out which breakers control which outlets/ lights, then try to plug the amp into a circuit that has the least & plug the rest into other outlets. I don't think even a power regenerator would fix your problem.

madmax

Originally posted by stam4p5
I have a problem with too little current reaching my amplifier. When at even moderate volumes, it will significantly dim the lights at bass peaks. Do they make a power conditioner type device that can solve this (similar to a stiffening capacitor in car audio)? I realize it would be a much more complex device for an alternating current source, but my amp pulls 1350 watts, and i live in an apartment where i can't install a dedicated circuit.

Check out the Tripplite LCR2400. What it does is selects the proper coils of an internal transformer automaticly to keep the output voltage constant. (brownout protection). On a particular circuit I have which also has my chandelier on it the lights tend to flash quite a bit which means there is a fairly big voltage drop. With the LCR2400 in place the lights get much worse but the output voltage to the amplifier stays constant.
madmax



Edit: Here is a link.
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2832&print=yes

You can find them for around $300 from internet stores.

jmierzur

Yes, the other unit I was thinking of was the Tripplite unit. Thanks Madmax.

unc2701,

The units listed in my post regulate power. They ARE used to correct the problem stam4p5 is having. He is not SOL. There is a solution.

From the Exactpower site:

If the AC at your wall socket is... (corresponds to the same line number below)
120 volts
115 volts
110 volts
105 volts
100 volts
95 volts

The EP15A can produce...
1,650 watts
1,550 watts
1,500 watts
1,450 watts
1,400 watts
1,300 watts

In addition, the

- Exactpower unit also filters/corrects the existing waveform to remove line noise.
- PS Audio and AudioPhile regenerate the power to output a pure waveform and regulate the power. The PS Audio unit has many additional features as well.

unc2701

Good point- the problem isn't the lights dimming, it's the brown out to the amp

I was thinking of the whole circuit. The lights will still dim since the every bit as much current will be pulled through, but you're totally right- those will keep the voltage up for the amp.

stam4p5

Thanks for all the suggestions. Should I be concerned with the voltage drop to the other equipment on the same line? My multimeter jumps from 120.6v (no load) to 92v (bass peaks). I am a little conerned about damage to the other electronics until I find the conditioner i want.

Willow

Originally posted by brettw22
Belkin has some good stuff out too. If you're interested in any of THESE let me know and I'll getcha a price.

I use Belkin got mine 50% off clearance at Home depot. Does the trick, yet I never noticed any problems. I use it more for surge prtection, it does have a filter , does it work I can't tell you !!
cost 25$ CAD

jrlouie

...Check out the Tripplite LCR2400. What it does is selects the proper coils of an internal transformer automaticly to keep the output voltage constant. (brownout protection). On a particular circuit I have which also has my chandelier on it the lights tend to flash quite a bit which means there is a fairly big voltage drop. With the LCR2400 in place the lights get much worse but the output voltage to the amplifier stays constant.
madmax...

For what it's worth, I use a Tripplite. It has a continuous output of 1800 watts. My 2-channel amp has a max draw of 1600 watts so I assume I won't negatively effect my amp so long as nothing else is connected. But this didn't even dawn on me before. I believe I have several other pieces connected to it too since it has surge protection, line conditioning, etc.
I'd hate to not have my amp on quality surge protection so maybe I'll remove all other components from the Tripplite and hook them up to some other surge protector.
That way I'll feel comfortable that I'm supplying adequate amounts of juice to my power-amp and hopefully all my smaller components will be getting what they need to, just not a conditioned line.
I haven't tested the effects on sound with the conditioner to my Lsi15's, but I probably will now

brettw22

Originally posted by Willow
I use Belkin got mine 50% off clearance at Home depot. Does the trick, yet I never noticed any problems. I use it more for surge prtection, it does have a filter , does it work I can't tell you !!
cost 25$ CAD

What you bought at Home Depot is just a surge protector, not a HT type of power center that I linked to.

dkg999

I'll chime in with a vote for the Tripp Lite LCR-2400. I have all my power amps plugged into it, and it in turn is plugged into a 20 amp circuit. I have very dirty AC in the apt. I am in, and the LCR-2400 has worked the best, with very little loss of "slam" effect on the power amplifiers.

I-SIG

Originally posted by stam4p5
Thanks for all the suggestions. Should I be concerned with the voltage drop to the other equipment on the same line? My multimeter jumps from 120.6v (no load) to 92v (bass peaks). I am a little conerned about damage to the other electronics until I find the conditioner i want.

Wow. 120.6VAC, while within +/-5%, seems awfully low to me. I would be tempted to go ahead and file a voltage complaint with your local utility. It could be that your transformer is loaded up to the point where your voltage is barely within specs, but once you add some rather dynamic load, the voltage drops like a rock, not to mention that your service cables could be undersized as well. Are these older apartments that were built before A/C was added? Do you have a window shaker?

Just some thoughts...


Wes

stam4p5

No, the apatment complex is less than 2 years old. They have doubled the size in the past 8 months, however, and i don't remember anyone upgrading the equipment.