Selling HT - going 2-channel

DaveSen

Hi. I'm selling the mid-fi HT gear and going 2-channel. I have evolved from a DVD lover to a CD lover (the number of CD's listened to per week is about 15 times that of DVD's viewed). I will keep my wires & IC's ("Bettercables"), subwoofer ("SVS" PB2-ISD), and "Rotel" HDCD player and have about $1,200. to spend on speakers and $1,000. to spend on a preamp/amp combo.

I'd rather not discuss the speaker search right now, as the POLK LSi9's are only ONE of the 3 choices I've narrowed my search down to at this point and I don't want to offend anybody on this - the POLK - forum.

I need your help in picking out a preamp. I have no interest in a HT preamp - stereo will do the trick. It does have to have a subwoofer line-level output, though. Also, being a newbie to separates, do preamps these days allow one to choose the "size" (limiting the frequencies sent to the mains) of the main speakers so the lows can be re-directed to the sub? This is important as the speakers I'm considering are all (very large) "bookshelf" models.

I also need help in picking out a matching amplifier or amp(s) - also just 2 channels. Stereo or monoblock? SS or tube? Hybrid? Separates or an integrated (but no "receiver" recommendations, please)?

My room is 14 by 14 (with dreaded cathedral-style ceilings). My listening preferences are alt rock - from Amos, Tori to Zombie, Rob. Sometimes I ask it to play LOUD. I'll be replacing a pair of rebuilt RT55's - which I know I'm gonna miss as soon as my friend takes them out my front door - and a Yammie flagship HT receiver - which won't be missed.

Thanks in advance.

lomic

I'm not much for stereo preamps, but I will have to chime in on your LSi9 decision

I love these speakers, they're amazing in almost every way - however they are not good for alternative rock, in my modest opinion. I've tried Tool, Nirvana, Disturbed etc. and it really doesn't sound too great (except acoustic). I'm not sure if it's the actual music or how they were recorded, but there's all kinds of problems, especially in the upper frequencies. Pretty much everything else sounds amazing, though.

DaveSen

Thanks iomic. A few more responses like that and it'll make my short list even shorter!

F1nut

Feel free to discuss any speaker on this forum, we do.

As for gear, many prefer a tube pre amp with a SS amp. The best of both worlds.

heiney9

I know from reading the forum over the last year that for some reason Adcom is not very highly regarded here.

But I have to chime in here. I bought my Adcom at the same time I bought my RTA-11t's almost 20 years ago; 1986 to be specific. I have loved that amp since day 1 and it have given me zero trouble. When set up properly with good cables and good source material there isn't a better sounding amp to be had unless you spend twice as much and even then the differences are minimal. They are built like tanks, will drive virtually anything and are very very musical. Some suggest they are bright, I don't agree.....If you think Adcom's are bright, take a look at your source or your speakers or your room environment. These factors have a HUGE influence on the actual sound that finally reaches your ears.

Now I'm by no means saying there aren't other good amps out there, but Adcoms can be had on the used market so cheaply and they are always available. I know it;s hard to reconcile inexpensive with excellent performance but Adcoms have proven it over and over.

As far as pre-amps go. I still have my trusty Nakamichi CA-5, again 20+ years old. Very basic, no frills pre that sounds great, although I could do a bit better.

I'm pretty sure you won't find a pre-amp with a sub out that doesn't also have HT features on it. But I could be wrong. I'm sure others here will chime in on that.

Good luck and I know you won't miss your Yammie.

Heiney9

VR3

B&K PT5 (2 channel preamp)

300 bucks or so used

DaveSen

F1nut, heiney, Sid, et al,
Thanks so far.
How about name brands & model #'s on the tube suggestions? Adcom makes a very well-reviewed pre (mod # GFA-750), but I'd have to go used if I chose that model. Any idea how it's little brother - the 715 - has been received?
Forgot all about B & K, and my friend has one in his 2-channel rig!
Keep 'em coming, please!
Also, don't forget the big room and my muic preference when considering power requirements.
Thanks, again!

Brent McCall

Look for a used Bryston.
Great Sound.
This is the real deal pre-amp.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5757849239&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Thank You

heiney9

Originally posted by DaveSen
F1nut, heiney, Sid, et al,
Thanks so far.
How about name brands & model #'s on the tube suggestions? Adcom makes a very well-reviewed pre (mod # GFA-750), but I'd have to go used if I chose that model. Any idea how it's little brother - the 715 - has been received?
Forgot all about B & K, and my friend has one in his 2-channel rig!
Keep 'em coming, please!
Also, don't forget the big room and my muic preference when considering power requirements.
Thanks, again!

From what I've read/heard the GFP-715 is a very nice pre. It's not up to the standards of the highly regarded GFP-750 but it does have some of the same design features. The 715 has a phono section which the 750 doesn't have.

As far as Adcom amps.... The original GFA 5x5 series is the original with bi-polar output transistors.

The 5x5 series II had some mods for better stability into low impedence loads (lower than most people would ever encounter). Some siginal path upgrades, but they were basically the same as the original series.

The latest series GFA-5x00 use MosFet's for the out put devices. They tend to have upgraded power supplies and higher output wattage.

In my opinion the jury is out as to which sound better. Personally I prefer a bi-polar amp. I think they are a bit more detailed and tend to be more revealing than mos-fet's as a rule.

Heiney9

danger boy

i'm looking at the specs for the NAD S 100 looks quite sweet.

7 line level inputs
high current holmgren toroidal power trans
gold plated contacts
pure class A circuit
balanced XLR outputs 2 sets of RCA's
gold plated input and output sockets

thd .001%

it looks silver.

they also have another in their NAD grey. it's the C 162

Emlyn

Not sure what speakers are being considered, but it's best to pick the speakers first then build a system around them in my opinion. My first suggestion would be to sell the SVS if you're serious about getting into two channel. I had the same subwoofer, so I know it's hard to let it go, but if you pick the right speakers you won't need a subwoofer at all. You should have no problem selling it for $700 or more, giving you a total budget of about $2900.

Here's what I'd do instead:

Polk SDA 1C for $600 to $700, then replace the tweeters for $200
Parasound HCA1500A for $800 or Rotel RB1080 for $1000 (less if demo or used)
Anthem Pre-2L tube preamp for about $600.
Total: about $2500 or less.

You'd have to wait a while for a pair of 1Cs to come on the market, but they do with some regularity. If spending more on something, I'd choose to spend more on a preamp.

A system like this would take you a long way (speaking from personal experience).

Early B.

Ditto on ditching the SVS for 2-channel. No need for it.

With your budget, you will do very well with whatever you choose. Floorstanding speakers for sure. Lots of great choices. Yeah, for the type of music you listen to, I'd go with solid state gear. Maybe a tube CD player to balance it out a bit.

scottnbnj

maybe you'd get more bang for your buck with a used integrated in the $1000 range.

creek, simaudio, krell, musical fidelity, classe all have well respected units that sell in that range used.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1115877779
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1115059221
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1114645736

)

steveinaz

YES....another 2-channel convert. Welcome aboard buddy...Viva 2-Channel!!!!

George Grand

You'd be hard pressed to find a two-channel preamp with a dedicated sub-woofer out.

If you need a sub, try using a "Tape Out" with a "Y" connector so it'll go down to one RCA connector (unless your sub has separate L and R line level inputs).

Even with that, you'll still be feeding a full range signal to your main speakers.

Ditch the sub.

Heiney9, I've bought and sold 4 pair of those RTA11t's. Two pair new in the late 80's, and then another two pair around 1999. The first two pair I drove with a Adcom GFA-555 ( that I bought from the senior service tech at Adcom) through a Dynaco "Quadaptor" which parallels the two pair of speakers. That means the Adcom GFA-555 was seeing a 3 ohm load with two pair of 6 ohms paralleled. It was one of the worst sounding amps I've ever heard, and it stunk up my stereo room to boot. Low impedance loads are NOT that amps forte, no matter what Anthony Cordesman says.

I sold that Adcom to a gentleman who had luck with it for about a year, and then it blew up trying to drive a pair of vintage, 8 ohm, AR-5's. He bought a big Onkyo M-506RS off me after that, at 130wpc, and he is STILL driving those AR-5's with it.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

tonyv1

Checkout the Anthem line:
Preamp/Tuner: TLP1
2 channel amp: PVA 2 or MCA 20
Both are rated for 4 ohm

heiney9

Originally posted by George Grand
Heiney9, I've bought and sold 4 pair of those RTA11t's. Two pair new in the late 80's, and then another two pair around 1999. The first two pair I drove with a Adcom GFA-555 ( that I bought from the senior service tech at Adcom) through a Dynaco "Quadaptor" which parallels the two pair of speakers. That means the Adcom GFA-555 was seeing a 3 ohm load with two pair of 6 ohms paralleled. It was one of the worst sounding amps I've ever heard, and it stunk up my stereo room to boot. Low impedance loads are NOT that amps forte, no matter what Anthony Cordesman says.

I sold that Adcom to a gentleman who had luck with it for about a year, and then it blew up trying to drive a pair of vintage, 8 ohm, AR-5's. He bought a big Onkyo M-506RS off me after that, at 130wpc, and he is STILL driving those AR-5's with it.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

Well George I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree. I sold alot of Adcoms along with Luxman, Nak, Yamaha, Onkyo, Kenwood, etc in the mid 80's early 90's and there was very little that could touch it. I have my experiences to go by and you have yours. I hope to be buried with my Adcom, I am probably pig-headed, but they are musical amps even driving the flawed sl2000 tweeters in my 11's. As far as low impedence loads, your story is one of the few I've heard about having trouble. The 11's, even in parallel, should not present a problem to even a modest amp, let alone a GFA-555.

The problems you had, in my experience, with Adcom at the time was atypical. But hey we all have our opinion and if you don't care for the Adcom that's your choice, atleast you are one of the informed.

Heiney9

dragon1952

You could consider an integrated like the Musical Fidelity A3.2
You can get them for $1199 new now days or $850-$950 used.

In the speaker search I'm assuming in that price range you've also considered the Paradigm Studio 40's which I love but have not compared them to the LSi's.
I can attest that the Musical Fidelity/Paradigm's match vey well, as I've heard it does with the Polks also.

LuSh

For the budget you have suggested I'd seriously look at the Classe' CAP 151 which are being sold for alltime low prices on Audiogon right now, or the Simaudio i-5.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1115948069
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1115931339

For under $1k I don't think you'd find a combo that would beat that Classe' intergrated. Actually for $1500 you'd still be hardpressed. I was thinking about going the route of separates along the lines of a Audio Research LS-3 or Copland 305T along with a SS amp like a Simaudio W-3 but have decided against it. More hassle then its worth.

DaveSen

The problem with ditching the sub is that my wife just bought it for me as a birthday present and I gave her the old : "We'll never need another subwoofer, honey...honest!" line. She'd kill me if I ever got rid of it!

Also, my somewhat uninformed (when it comes to A/V gear) kids believe me when I tell them that they won't miss the HT speakers all around them when we watch a DVD if I replace them with "high-end" speakers and power. You see, the new 2-channel rig will still be next to the Mitsu HDTV and will act as the speakers for DVD viewing. Because the new SVS made such a dramatic improvement when watching movies, they're not stupid enough to believe it wouldn't be missed.

My conundrum is that the SVS stays.

Perhaps I'll just turn it on for DVD viewing. That still leaves me with the task of finding a stereo preamp with a line-level output.

I'm starting to get a bit confused, myself. You folks have been great - I usually only READ posts here - you're all pretty nice & also very knowledgeable. Thank you all.

Because of my music preferences, maybe my re-built RT55's DO sound great for what I want. Maybe I should just start a second system from scratch.

I need to rest my brain. I've been online all weekend!

organ

By looking at your music preference and budget, I'd recommend a good tube integrated amp like Antique Sound Lab or Jolida and a pair of Klipsch. My music preference is similar to yours (Sarah Brightman to Cradle of Filth, that's classical to black metal) and I'll tell you, you haven't heard metal until you hear them on super efficient speakers with tubes driving them. I also own a pair of LSi9 and I wouldn't recommend them for LOUD listening, especially with really heavy stuff.

Maurice

Sami

Dave, sounds like you should consider adding an amp and two main speakers to your HT gear. Perhaps a surround prepro too. Sell the other stuff and get some cheap surrounds and centre speaker. This way you keep the kids and your wife happy when you don't sacrifice the HT experience. I was going to say a separate 2ch would be the only way to not compromise but that would be a compromise on the wallet.

reeltrouble1

You can get a very nice 2-channel pre from doddaudio.biz The ELP is an excellent way to break into tubes, brand new around 450.00, these are hand built pre's check it out. If you want to go SS I have had good results with an older NAD product, they come up from time to time on Audiogon and E-Pay.

I agree whole heartedly with those who recommend 2.0, nada on the sub, sure keep it for DVD. As long as your bookshelf can dig down to 40hz with decent spl I would think your going to be OK, but as Emlyn suggested the 1C's are awesome.

Have fun.

RT1