Sub hookup help

stringman57

I'd love to get some easy to understand advice on how to hook up my sub to my system listed in my profile. I'm picking up the sub today. I want to be able to use it both in stereo mode for music as well as for home theater.

Willow

RCA line out of the receiver to rca in on the sub. Turn sub xover all the way up and set all speakers to small. Set receiver to sub out YES or both. play with volume on sub to get a nice blend or better yet get an SPL meter from ratshack. sit back and enjoy

stringman57

Originally posted by Willow
RCA line out of the receiver to rca in on the sub. Turn sub xover all the way up and set all speakers to small. Set receiver to sub out YES or both. play with volume on sub to get a nice blend or better yet get an SPL meter from ratshack. sit back and enjoy

Thanks, Willow, that sounds easy enough. The only other question I have is whether I should use a Y connector to go in both the L and R connections on the sub. Also, do I just forget about connecting to the LFE (whatever that is)?

Willow

you can use a Y spliter to yield a 6dbl increase or you can save the cash and turn up your sub.

Toxis

uhhhh, turn the x-over all the way up and leave it? No thanks, I don't like muddy bass.

It all depends on what kind of bass management your reciever has. Typically, a sub shouldn't really be set higher than 80 htz, but it depends on the sub, the main speakers and the reciever's capabilities.

John K.

String, Willow's advice is good, including the general suggestion to turn the crossover control on the sub all the way up and leave it there(this is simply to get the sub's internal crossover as far out of the way as possible from interfering with the crossover that your 2500 will be handling). Your ML Dynamo, however, has an even better way of doing this; by using the single LFE input instead of the two other low level inputs the sub's internal crossover is completely bypassed. So, using any regular coaxial cable with an RCA plug on each end, connect the 2500's sub output to the Dynamo's LFE input.

In setting up with the 2500 you'll be able to use the YPAO automatic calibration and equalization, but you should probably manually set all speakers "small" and choose the 80Hz crossover on the 2500.

I notice that you specifically mentioned the "stereo mode", which would in fact allow use of the sub on two-channel material(a setting such as "pure", "direct", "straight" etc. generally doesn't make use of the sub). However, you shouldn't confine yourself to the stereo mode on two-channel material. You've paid for five fine speakers and should make full use of them on all program sources. Experiment with the DPLII settings on your 2500, which will process the ambience naturally present to varying degrees in all two-channel material and steer it to the surrounds where it belongs, resulting in a bit more overall realism. Enjoy your new setup.

stringman57

Originally posted by John K.
String, Willow's advice is good, including the general suggestion to turn the crossover control on the sub all the way up and leave it there(this is simply to get the sub's internal crossover as far out of the way as possible from interfering with the crossover that your 2500 will be handling). Your ML Dynamo, however, has an even better way of doing this; by using the single LFE input instead of the two other low level inputs the sub's internal crossover is completely bypassed. So, using any regular coaxial cable with an RCA plug on each end, connect the 2500's sub output to the Dynamo's LFE input.

In setting up with the 2500 you'll be able to use the YPAO automatic calibration and equalization, but you should probably manually set all speakers "small" and choose the 80Hz crossover on the 2500.

I notice that you specifically mentioned the "stereo mode", which would in fact allow use of the sub on two-channel material(a setting such as "pure", "direct", "straight" etc. generally doesn't make use of the sub). However, you shouldn't confine yourself to the stereo mode on two-channel material. You've paid for five fine speakers and should make full use of them on all program sources. Experiment with the DPLII settings on your 2500, which will process the ambience naturally present to varying degrees in all two-channel material and steer it to the surrounds where it belongs, resulting in a bit more overall realism. Enjoy your new setup.

John, thank you very much. The connection you are talking about is from the 2500 pre out sub connection, right? As far as the stereo mode, what I was asking is will the sub will be active when I'm listening to music from the front speakers, not the center or rears? So you think that i'm better off using all the speakers for music as well as HT?

Willow

Originally posted by Toxis
uhhhh, turn the x-over all the way up and leave it? No thanks, I don't like muddy bass.

It all depends on what kind of bass management your reciever has. Typically, a sub shouldn't really be set higher than 80 htz, but it depends on the sub, the main speakers and the reciever's capabilities.

You did not read my info correctly, this method does not yield muddy bass. This assures the xover is not double filtered. He will use the xover that is set in his receiver. I can only see using the xover on a sub is if you use the speaker cable line in on the sub and not the rca.

String, as john said don't use the y cable if your sub has the LFE use that.

stringman57

Originally posted by Willow
You did not read my info correctly, this method does not yield muddy bass. This assures the xover is not double filtered. He will use the xover that is set in his receiver. I can only see using the xover on a sub is if you use the speaker cable line in on the sub and not the rca.

String, as john said don't use the y cable if your sub has the LFE use that.

Thanks, Willow, it has the LFE input. So, a single wire from the sub pre out to the LFE? What I REALLY don't understand is the Martin Logan directions for hook up if you are going to be using your system for both music and HT. They have one connection from the pre amp out of the receiver to the R and L line in connections on the sub and they also show a single wire from the processor(whatever that is) to the LFE connection on the sub.

stringman57

These are the ML instructions for the 2 channel/multi-channel mode:


Using an A/V processor and the Dynamo’s low pass filters.
This setup is recommended if your Dynamo will be used
in both 2-channel mode and as a LFE (0.1) channel in
a multi-channel mode. By following this setup, you will
allow your processor to handle most of the bass management
while running in multi-channel mode, and relinquish
control of the low pass filter to the Dynamo when running
in a 2-channel mode.
1 Connect the left and right outputs of your preamplifier to
the left and right inputs of the Dynamo using quality RCA
interconnects. If your preamplifier only has one set of
outputs you need to obtain Y adapters from your dealer.
2 Connect the LFE/0.1 output of the processor to the LFE
input of the subwoofer using quality RCA interconnects.
Recommended Control Settings (see figure 7):
1 Set your front speakers for wide, large or full mode in your
processor. Set the center and effects type speakers in
limited or narrow mode (see the warning on page 7).
2 Set the low-pass filter switch to the closest option equal to
70% of your loudspeakers lowest frequency response.
3 While playing music with bass content, turn the level control
up until the music has deep bass that is not overwhelming.
4 Try the phase control in different settings until the best
blending is obtained. If you are augmenting MartinLogan
loudspeakers, we suggest you start with the phase set
at 90°.
5 Use the bass management section of your processor’s
speaker level setup option to set the subwoofer level
at an appropriate level. Follow the instructions in your
processor’s manual to fine-tune the subwoofer level.
6 If your processor offers the option to setup crossovers for a
subwoofer, we recommend that you start with the following
settings—Crossover: 70Hz, High-Pass: 12dB, and Low-
Pass: 24dB. The optimal setting for these options may vary
depending on your room and listening preferences.

I can't find the LFE 0.1 output on the 2500

stringman57

This is the set up ML recommends for a dedicated HT set up. Willow, this is your recommendation, right? Will it be ok for front speaker only listening, too?

This setup is recommended if your Dynamo will be used in a
dedicated home theater or multi-channel system. When a
signal is connected to the Dynamo’s LFE input, Dynamo’s internal
low pass filter is not active. By following this setup, you will
allow your processor to handle most of the bass management.
Signal Connection (see figure 4):
1 Connect the LFE/0.1 subwoofer output of the processor to
the LFE input of the Dynamo using a quality RCA interconnect.
WARNING!
Based on the performance of most processors,
it is recommended that MartinLogan center and
effects type speakers (i.e. Cinema i, Theater i and
Script i) not be run in large, wide or full range mode.
Doing so may potentially damage the speaker if
the processor attempts to drive the speaker beyond
its rated frequency range. This warning also
applies to products from other manufacturers.
It is recommended to run center and effects type
speakers in limited or narrow mode.
Some processors have an option to route the 0.1
channel to your main and/or surround speakers.
We recommend that you do not use this option.
Recommended Control Settings (see figure 5):
1 Use the bass management section of your processor‘s
speaker level setup option to set the subwoofer level at
an appropriate level. Follow the instructions in your processor
manual to fine-tune the subwoofer level.
2 If your processor offers the option to setup crossovers for a
subwoofer, we recommend that you start with the following
settings—Crossover: 70Hz, High-Pass: 12dB, and Low-
Pass: 24dB. The optimal setting for these options may
vary depending on your room and listening preferences.
3 Adjust the phase control until ideal blending is obtained.
If you hear no discernible difference leave the phase at 0°.
4 Follow the instructions in your processor manual to
fine-tune the subwoofer level.

John K.

Yes, string, simply connect a single cable from the subwoofer output in the pre-outs section of your 2500 to the single LFE input on your dynamo. If you do this and use the stereo mode(rather than "pure" etc.)the sub will operate when you're using just two speakers. Although the ML manual offers the option of also connecting the other two low-level inputs to "relinquish control" of the low pass to the Dynamo in stereo operaton, in my view there's no good reason to do this. Rely on the single LFE connection and the crossover done by your 2500.

Yes, I also suggest that you use DPLII(and experiment with its spatial adjustments such as center width and dimension)on two channel material so that the ambience(reflected sound) present in the two channels is extracted and sent to the surround speakers to more closely duplicate the fact that they originally came from the sides and back, not the front. It often isn't realized, but even those sitting near the front of a concert hall get a majority of sound as indirect reflections from the walls rather than as direct sound from the front. Using processes such as DPLII and Logic 7 to remove this sound from the front speakers and steer it to the surrounds where it belongs can make reproduction in the home a little closer to reality. So, use all your speakers; we're no longer confined by the number of channels in the source material and the Stereo Police won't bust us for using more than two speakers.

Willow

I couldn't have said it beter myself John K !

Now String sit back and enjoy, don't be shy with anyother questions, some one here will have an answer for you.

stringman57

Thank you both very much. As you can tell I'm a little out of my element here...not stupid, but not as well versed in HT as you are. Now I have one other question. I have a Denon DVD 2200, and it has all kinds of audio settings like 2 channel or multi channel, speakers large or small, sub on or off, etc. Is there any way to let my receiver manage all that, or do I have to make the choices both in the DVD/CD player and the receiver?

John K.

String, most of the adjustments in the player would only be necessary if DVD-As/SACDs were being played rather than regular CDs and DVDs. To prevent digital copying of DVD-As/SACDs they are output on the 6 analog outputs on the player rather than either of the digital outputs. Since things like bass management have to be done in the digital rather than analog realm, they have to done be for DVD-As/SACDs by the player before it converts them to analog. For your regular CD and DVD sound, however, you'll be using the single coaxial digital connection between the 2200 and 2500 and those digital adjustments can either be done automatically by the YPAO system in the 2500 or you can choose to do some(e.g. setting all speakers "small" with an 80Hz crossover)manually.

stringman57

Thank you, John. This forum is wonderful, and i appreciate you and Willow taking the time to answer my questions. If I'm playing a SACD, then do I need to make the adjustments in the DVD player, or will the receiver make the analog adjustments?

John K.

Yes, if you would play an SACD, the output would have to be through the 6 analog connections, and the 2500 can't do anything with it except to change the master volume level. The settings for speaker size, balancing volume levels and setting delays for different speaker distances would have to be done in the 2200. What are termed "hybrid" SACDs also have a regular CD layer which can be output through the digital connections and adjustments made digitally in the receiver. Depending on the care taken in mastering the CD layer it may or may not be audibly as good as the 2-channel SACD track.