Towers vs. Bookshelf

therealjeepguy · February 2005

Hi guys and gals!
I've been wanting to know what the benefit of a "full range" tower versus a nice bookshelf speaker blended well with a good sub might be. I currently have a pair of RTi 6 for front mains, CSi 3 center, RTi4 for surr., and a PSW-404. I love the system I have, but I think I need to upgrade the sub. I've decided to go with an SVS PC 25-31 when I do this.
I've read numerous reviews glorifying this sub as well as all the SVS subs. Even so, I still would like to know what is the difference of having a tower over a good bookshelf/sub set up?
If you got the full audio range covered, then why spend the extra coin on more expensive towers? I ask this because I recently became interested in purchasing a pair of RTi 8's to replace my RTi 6's, but as I thought more about it, how would this benefit over my current set up? Either way, I would still need a sub...right? I think if there is an upgrade to be made, the sub is where I should do it. Can anyone back me up on this? I may have answered my own question, but I like to have the feedback from the masses!

Thanx for the help folks!

Dennis Gardner · February 2005

You've got it right. Bookshelves or towers doesn't really matter with a sub.

Towers look cooler though.:cool: :cool:

danger boy · February 2005

towers all the way for me. i have never really cared for speaker stands or placing the speakers on any kind. not that is looks bad or anything. i just hate balancing something that precious on a stand.

Toxis · February 2005

Typically, a tower will give you a fuller sound. It's hard for most bookshelf speakers to play full range without sacrificing something somewhere. The only bookshelf speaker I've heard that has the stance of a tower is the LSi9's. Listen to the differences in the RTi8 vs. RTi6 and yes, you'll notice a better sound. At least I do.

stevennoland · February 2005

Originally posted by danger boy
towers all the way for me. i have never really cared for speaker stands or placing the speakers on any kind. not that is looks bad or anything. i just hate balancing something that precious on a stand.

Danger boy,

Check my system in the 'System showcase'. I have a pair of the LSi9's mounted to a set of stands custom made by me. The speakers were modified (I wish I had a pic) so I could bolt them directly to the stands. Weight of each stand with speaker is just shy of 100 pounds. There is no way those puppies are tipping over!

RuSsMaN · February 2005

Find the brand/model tower you like, right at the VERY top end of your budget.

Then, buy the bookshelf speaker from the next series UP in the manufacturers chain (usually about the same price), and add a sub later.

Cheers,
Rooster

MacLeod · February 2005

Thats a good idea Russ. I kind of did that. Was liking the Monitor 60 but the better RTi6 is about the same price.

I recently went to Tweeter and got to demo both the RTi8 against the RTi6 and the 8 did sound quite a bit better. It had deeper bass and better impact and sounded a little fuller. The 6 was excellent also just not quite as "big" as the 8. BUT the 8 is also nearly $800/pair whereas the 6 is $370/pair.

You get what you pay for.

2+2 · February 2005

From what I can glean, size of the cabinets does impact sound quality/characteristics even if the drivers are the same....not necessarily for the better but size does make a difference..

Stroonzo · February 2005

Well, I have played my Rti38 bookshelves against their Rti70 tower counterparts, and honeslty, the difference was so minimal, it was silly. With the SVS PB12, there is no difference at all.

Another thought: When using such a well blended sub, most people set their mains to small anyway. This is going to eliminate so much of the lower frequency going to the towers or the bookshelves it kind of makes it a wash.

AsSiMiLaTeD · February 2005

Originally posted by MacLeod
I recently went to Tweeter and got to demo both the RTi8 against the RTi6 and the 8 did sound quite a bit better. It had deeper bass and better impact and sounded a little fuller. The 6 was excellent also just not quite as "big" as the 8. BUT the 8 is also nearly $800/pair whereas the 6 is $370/pair.

You get what you pay for.

Of course the floorstanding is going to have a fuller sound, I don't think there's any discussion there.

I agree with what Russ said completely...I have towers now, but if I could do it again I would do things differently...

Stroonzo · February 2005

Oh, another point I thought of:

Center channel! In addition to what I stated about setting mains to small etc... Don't forget about the importance of the center channel and how much data is sent to it. I feel as if the center is one of the most important speakers in the entire system. This is why I went with the Polk Csi40. The sucker is huge and heavy, but incorporates dual 6½" drivers.

So maybe my final thought is, it may be better to upgrade to a Csi5 before getting towers.

By all means you should definitely get yourself an SVS. You will be thankful you did. I would never go back. My SVS impresses everyone who listens to our setup.

You definitely have a very nice speaker collection. I think your Rti6s are great (they are basically an Rti38 in new skin, so I have to like em!). And your surrounds are great. Go with a sub, and then if you still feel the urge, get yourself a Csi5. I think these are your biggest areas of improvement and where you will see the most return.
__________________
Onkyo TX-SR501
Polk Rti38 x 4
Polk Csi40
SVS PB1-ISD (aka PB12-ISD)
-=See It Here=-
http://www.JConti.Net/HT

Teejai · February 2005

I would just upgrade the sub to the SVS and go from there. In fact, that will probably be my next upgrade. I love my system now especially since I upgraded to the CSi5 but the sub needs a little help. I really don't like towers, something just doesn't sound right to me I don't know why.

Early B. · February 2005

I have full range floorstanders with an SVS. This combo absolutely blows away any bookshelf speaker I've tried (RTi28, RTi38 and Lsi7's) for HT.

Stroonzo · February 2005

Originally posted by Early B.
I have full range floorstanders with an SVS. This combo absolutely blows away any bookshelf speaker I've tried (RTi28, RTi38 and Lsi7's) for HT.

I guess it just depends on other factors too (besides just the speakers). Maybe with the settings I have mine set to, I just didn't hear much of a difference. Could be our rooms are just different and that changes the outcome. Who knows? I just can't imagine (nor did I hear) that much of a difference between two "brother" speakers (like the Rti70 and Rti38) when being played through a receiver limiting the amount of low frequency signal to them. Now there was a significant difference when played full range (without using a sub). But like I said, in my configuration/situation, I just didn't experience the same outcome. But that is the beauty of it. So many factors to consider.

landry_p2000 · February 2005

I got towers for the first and second time around my home theater. The reason I got towers is for their versatility. I like to hear music in a more soft mellow tone sometimes, and the towers deliver this sound to me without a sub, just the way I like it.

therealjeepguy · February 2005

I guess when it comes down to it, it's just a matter of personal preference. Not too long ago I had concidered running my RTi 6 in stereo mode w/out using the sub. Don't get me wrong, these babies go pretty deep on their own, but to fill a room with full dynamic sound can be challenging for two 6-1/2" drivers working in unison. I know that my receiver isn't giving them the clean power that a good seperate amp can and I had concidered purchasing a good multi--channel amp like an Anthem MCA-50, but then I thought, hey, it's still just two 6-1/2" drivers. Although my system could probably benefit from a separate set up, I came to realize that I have a perfectly good sub integrated in my system...use it!!! The key word here is "system" It all works beautifully together. Now it's all about finding that "perfect" sub (SVS is at the top of my list for now) and perhaps later and amp! I know I'm in for a never ending project! Lol!
Thanx for the feedback everybody!

outlander · February 2005

Full size speaker Vs a bookshelf, this has to be a joke, right?

I would take a pair of full size speakers over bookshelfs any day. I have a pair of 10Bs and a pair of Monitor 4s and the 10s have a much more rich / full sound. When using the 10s it allows me to play stereo music without running the sub. To me a sub is great for a shoot-em up movie but for pure music listening pleasure Ill take a pair of full range / full size speakers every time .
O

Dennis Gardner · February 2005

Outlander, the problem with that comparison is that the newer towers, don't have bass drivers that extend the range as much as your older model comparison. They normally use a bigger cavity with much the same driver makeup as the modern bookshelves. This makes the comparison more valid as a question.

Such is the comparison of the RT55 vs. Rti70. Same drivers, different box.

Jeep guy is asking about moving up in models, but not from the bottom to the top of the line.

outlander · February 2005

Dennis,
Point well taken.
O

gregure · February 2005

I honestly think towers sound better, even when setting them to small and crossing to a sub. I have two friends w/ Rti 6's as their mains, w/ a sub. Granted, they don't have B&K receivers, but then I used to run my Rti 10's off an Onkyo 701. I think the 10's sound fuller and have better imaging than the 6's, even crossed over at 80 Hz. I think part of it has to do w/ cabinet size (more wood to resonate), but also because of the crossover settings of the drivers. The mid-woofer has less demand put on it when the bass drivers share the load. The 6's just have the one driver to run everything south of tweeterdom, and I hear compression a whole lot quicker w/ the 6's than I do w/ my 10's. In fact, I turn it up really loud, and the w/ the excellent receiver the 10's sound great at loud volumes w/o too much compression, at least at the volume my house can reasonably take.
If I were in the position to, however, I'd probably upgrade to LSi speakers, in which case I would most certainly use the 9's as mains, but more because I really don't like powered subs in my mains. SVS woofers are far superior to Polk woofers anyway.

brody05 · February 2005

Ive had many different systems in my time thus far and I gotta say, value for money is bookshelves (large ones though), I used to be a floorstander man all the way and only ever looked at bookshelves for the rear, then one day in the middle of a shake up I tried the little ol RT55is from the rears and centers as fronts, I was blown away, couldn't beleive they had so much presence. What about the big floorstanders such as RT3000s and SRTs, basically just a bookshelf on subs ey, if your getting a sub, go with the bookshelves, I also prefer the LSi7s and 9s to the floorstanders such as LSi15 ect and I dont think I am alone.

The only hassle is the stands, but get some lead or iron ore sand filled ones and they wont move easily.......

jmierzur · February 2005

I prefer to listen with a sub regardless of whether the speakers are towers or bookshelf models. A local dealer who sells the Wilson Audio line allowed me to spend some time with the speakers and Sim Audio equipment. After listening to Maxx (as well as Watt/Puppy and Sophia) speakers for many visits over the course of a year, I have become accustomed to having a solid presence in the lowest octave.

My current bookshelf/sub combination gives me solid performance in this area. If I was to upgrade speakers, the two subs would remain in the system. In the past, I used a Yamaha servo sub with Monitor 10s. That was a great combination as well that I thoroughly enjoyed for many years.

I am not sure why so many are biased against using a sub while listening to two-channel music. With a sub having clean output and well integrated with the main speakers, there are many benefits. I also like RussMans suggestion in this thread for selecting speakers. Excellent advice, unless you have on unlimited budget.

Seggy · February 2005

Russman - You've got it covered!

KLD2246 · February 2005

Jeepguy, you can go on line at Polk and get the Rti10 for $950 and get a $150 coupon to use for your next buy. Also the 8's are $699 and you can still get the $150 coupon. Offer expires soon so thats how I would do it. I compared th 8s and th 10s and you will find a lot of people say, if your going to build your dream system, you start with what is best and the 10 beats the 8 as I sat down at frys and listened to both sets over and over and over again. No question. Also Polk (redirected to Crutchfield) gives you free 2-3 day ground transportation. You can use the $150 and use it towards your sub or rears or even the center. I wish you the best.

S_rangeBrew · February 2005

Originally posted by jmierzur

I am not sure why so many are biased against using a sub while listening to two-channel music. With a sub having clean output and well integrated with the main speakers, there are many benefits. I also like RussMans suggestion in this thread for selecting speakers. Excellent advice, unless you have on unlimited budget.

Many people only have experience with sloppy subs that are only good for home theater. So, it makes sense that the tower speakers sound better to them.

I feel, like you, that if you match the bookshelfs with the sub correctly using proper equalization, that combo will hand a set of tower speakers their a*s on a platter.

*However*, tower speakers come from the factory perfectly equalized. Most sub/satellite combos are not even close. I recently went into Best Buy (this is an extreme example) and was listening to some towers, and bookshelf/sub combos.
It was a fruitless excercise. The subs were turned up about 20dB too hot! Of *course* the towers sounded better.

I'm setting up a system right now with bookshelves (The Polk Monitor 30) that only need to be capable of going down to 80hz. The subwoofer will take over below that. With this setup, I can get bookshelves small enough to mount on the wall (negating the worry about stands mentioned above) and save enough money to get a sub that will produce tones that a tower can only dream of. It also frees up a lot of power from the reciever amps.

Go bookshelves!

scottnbnj · February 2005

Originally posted by therealjeepguy
I still would like to know what is the difference of having a tower over a good bookshelf/sub set up?

in general the main advantages of bookshelves/sub are probably that you can place each where they perform the best and similarly the manufacturers didn't have to trade off performance of either the top or bottom to suit the other or guess what height you'd like the image or your room response and so on.

if you're a set it and forget it type, you can probably go either way, but, if you're a relentless tweaker, you'll probably get more bang for your buck with bookshelves/sub.

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Towers vs. Bookshelf

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