Jose Canseco

Strong Bad · February 2005

Any of you been following whats going on with him?

I have 2 things that I believe about this whole issue.

1. He's bitter as hell that these other guys like McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro and such are getting all this positive press about their baseball achievements, will be going to the Hall Of Fame and he is gone from the sport to be forgotten.

2. He's telling the TRUTH! You can just look at Bonds and the others and see that they use the juice. Bonds is freakin enourmous! I've been in gyms long enough to know that they are using it. I also know the one cardinal rule that users hang tight to...DENY DENY DENY!

Thats about all I'm gonna say cause I don't want to start a huge flame and political war. I have my thoughts and feelings on the stuff, but it's best left off the forum.

Keep it clean and nice guys!

John

shack · February 2005

I heard an interview with Tony LaRussa who managed both at Oakland. He said he was sure Jose was on roids because he got big and did less work. He defended Mark and said that he was a true gym rat and nutrition nut who spent hours every day getting bulked up. Supplements...yes. Roids...no. Tony said the traniners of the As and Cards felt the same way and they were guys he believed and respected.

Jose spent years saying he never touched the stuff...but according to him, NOW he is telling the truth. Why? Because he feels the need to come clean for the good of the sport. BS! He needs the cash and has a book comming out. Oh yeah...he also has a production co. started that will make the movie. He now said he needed to take the stuff to help him get the props he deserved since he was a snubbed Cuban. And...he needed to make sure he was able to make the money to take care of his family. You know....things like homes in Fl., Bentleys, repair on wrecked Porsches and Ferraris (and the booze that caused the wrecks), lap dances, defense lawyers for the assault charges, etc...etc.. Is he telling the truth?...to some extent...probably. But I would certainly take what he says with a grain of salt and give everyone else the benefit of doubt before I would take everything Jose says as the truth.

MacLeod · February 2005

John, thats the first thing I thought too. Jose is a has been now and wanted to get his name back out there so he decided to turn rat.

I never judge people that do roids but I do lose repect for them. Ive been a serious weighlifter now for over 13 years and can throw around some serious weight and have worked my gonads off to get there and I have NEVER taken so much as a drop of steroiods and it kills me to see dudes come in there and gain 50 pounds in a month or go from benching 185 to 315 in 2 weeks while Im there bleeding out my eyes, scratching and clawing to put 5 pounds on my bench.

We've got a dude in there that a while back was barely repping 405 on squats. 3-4 months later hes working out with 495!!! It took me YEARS to get from 405 to 495 and this guy does it wthout breaking a sweat.

Other guys come in weighing nearly 300 pounds and do a workout that, if I worked out that way Id weigh 125 lbs, but they can throw around weights half heartedly and grow daily while I bust my **** to gain a few pounds here and there.

Again, Im not knocking anybody. Its there life and there business. Its just that when you bust your **** to make 5 pound gains here and there and some head comes in and in weighing 135 and in 2 months is 250 its irritating. :mad:

gatemplin · February 2005

Originally posted by MacLeod
Its there life and there business. Its just that when you bust your **** to make 5 pound gains here and there and some head comes in and in weighing 135 and in 2 months is 250 its irritating. :mad:

Have you seen what those guys look like when they are 40 and have stopped taking roids? It catches up to them. Hard work pays off.

MacLeod · February 2005

Ive seen several guys that go from 125 to 225 in about 2 months, then run out of money and within a month are back to 125. The most noticable is the neck. Natural guys' necks dont grow nearly as much as some dude on roids cause roids make everything grow huge with minimal stimulation, which is also why they have guts even tho they have 1% bodyfat.

Hell, look at the Rock. His latest movie he's about 40 pounds smaller than his last movie.

Roids are totally artificial so when you stop taking them, you lose pretty much everything you had.

Plus they make you stronger and bigger faster than your body can adapt to and so you have tears and rips of all kinds of muscle.

Demiurge · February 2005

I believe Jose.

McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Giambi....and many others are total dopers and frauds. Their records should still stand because what they were doing was plainly ignored by the sport, but I'm sorry....in my book they're still frauds. You'd really have to be stupid not to see it for what it is.

Just like OJ wasn't convicted....I still feel in my heart he's guilty as sin. It's important to make the distinction.

Just like I know all the dirt will come out on ole L.A. in the cycling world as well. People were saying how nuts everyone was back when people were calling out the aforementioned ball players as being suspected of doping. Those who said it were all proved right. It was logical to assume and they were right. Emotion often gets in the way of looking at things objectively. We don't want to believe something is true....pretty soon all the logic and reason in the world isn't enough to convince a person who is so emotionally tied to someone.

You can see it with your own eyes. People just don't want to believe their heroes aren't anything more than cheats. Wonder how big of chumps those knuckleheads that gave back McGwire's record home run balls feel like.

Strong Bad · February 2005

You got it Demiurge!

Big Mac, Bonds, Palmeiro and a few others will continue to deny it simply because they have a ton to lose if they admitted it.

Do I blame them for denying it....HELL NO! I would do the same if I were in their shoes.

Juice is a touchy subject. With me it's like, why are alcohol and cigarettes legal when they kill millions? Guess it's the $$$ factor.

John

Ron-P · February 2005

I say, let these guys do what they want. It's not like sports is an honest mans game anyway.

AsSiMiLaTeD · February 2005

I personally don't see what the big deal is... I know I'm in the minority...

If they want to de permanent damage to their body, then fine...but my same sentiments go out to all the smokers and consumers of mass amounts of alcohol...

Cheating? Well yeah I guess, but when the guy pitching is doing roids, you do what you have to in order to keep up...and vice-versa. Technically, it's cheating according to the rules, but when a large number of people in the sport do it, you're just trying to keep up. Where does it start, where does it end?

And why are we just talking baseball here? Take barry Bonds and stand him next to a few of the NFL guys and let's discuss who's on the juice...

Bottom line though...who cares? You know you're on the juice, I know you're on the juice, and you know that I know you're on the juice, so it's all a wash anyway...

Strong Bad · February 2005

I personally know guys that have done the stuff in moderate cycles several times throughtout the years and they have no ill effects whatsoever.

It's all in moderation like drinking, for example. All the experts will have you believe that if you simply do 1 small cycle or even look at the stuff, then your liver will explode, you'll have a heartattack, your kidneys will fail and you'll go into a roid rage and slaughter hundreds of people.

If I told you that having 1 bottle of beer will cause massive liver damage, how likely are you to believe that? Thats what they make it seem with juice.

I say make an all juice Baseball league. Let 'em use anything and everything they want. We'll have 700 ft homers and 100 homer seasons. LOL!

John

Demiurge · February 2005

I don't care about steroids either.

What I do care about is that not everyone is doing it or can afford to do it so that creates a **** playing field. Raw talent is replaced by artificial talent that not everyone has access to. Make the crap legal then, but I don't think it will solve the problem.

All they really need to do is have aggresive testing standards and fines. You'll always find guys who want to get paid to play a game....so I don't think that saying "You can't take steroids and if you do you'll be severely penalized," is going to hurt the game.

I also don't know why athletes get a pass, but if I want to hit the roids I could get a huge fine and go to jail.

This is obviously a touchy subject, as long as we still realize these people are frauds and not playing by the rules. It's unsportsmanlike at best.

AsSiMiLaTeD · February 2005

on the topic of them being frauds...I don't totally agree...

Sure, roids bulk you up and give you strength, but let's use barry Bonds as an example.

First off, he was hitting home runs long before he ever got on the juice...we all know that. Remember he wasn't always this big and he had some great seasons back in the early 90s before he bulked up. But that's not even my point...

To say that these athletes are frauds implies that they are recognized as something they are not, which is only half-true. Steroids cannot make a poor athlete great, they make a great athlete better. We'll use Barry as an example. Taking steriods may let him hit a home run a bit farther, but he still has to hit the ball in the first place, and steroids are not going to grant that ability. It takes a great athlete to make it to the MLB and even be able to get a hit against the world's top pitchers, and taking steriods is simply not to to solely give you that greatness.

Do steriods enhance a players abilities, yes they do, no doubt.

But, are these athletes still the best at what they do, yes, they are.

I don't think it makes them frauds...we see them as the best in the world at what they do, and that is in fact the truth.

Again, if I'm a batter and I know the guy pitching to me is on the juice, then the only way for me to really compete is to do the same. Does that make it right, well of course not, but it does add some perspective.

Demiurge · February 2005

Steroids cannot make a poor athlete great, they make a great athlete better.

Want to bet? Bonds was an above average player at best, but he wouldn't be anywhere near what he become. He was NOT a power hitter in the least. Being a good ball player and crushing baseballs OUT of the parks without an ounce of effort is not who he was. It's what the roids made him.

McGwire was a very good ball player, but he didn't get super good till he hit the roids at 35.

Who plays the best ball of their life at 35? :rolleyes:

Sorry, man...but that's so weak justification to use drugs in a sport that should be on an even playing field with GOD'S (Is it still ok to use that name?) talent that he gave these men.

What about Giambi? He's a good player? Is there a reason he sucks now after he OBVIOUSLY stopped taking the roids?

Making excuses for these guys is a joke. They're innocent until proven guilty, but their guilt is their body and their proven abilities before and after and anyone with an ounce of common sense can see it. I find their actions deplorable to the name of the sport and while an opinion...I don't see how anyone can say it doesn't damage the integrity of the game. The 90s are the steroid era. It's baseballs fault for not doing anything about it and it's a character fault on behalf of these athletes and the fake veil they've been living behind while they act like some great heroes for breaking records set by better men than they are.

If Henry Aaron was on the juice isn't his home run total 30% more? Makes his record all the more impressive and makes me shake my head when I watch a juiced up **** like Barry Bonds 'beat' that record.

Jose Canseco

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