Large or Small?

Integra

Hi guys, looking for your opinions. I just upgraded from the cs 245 to the cs 400 ( I think I got the last one in existance in my area. Had a tough time finding one, started to panic! ) What a difference! And a steal at $ 279.00 Cnd. I had set the 245 to small but figured the 400 can be set to large. Just wondering what other people do. Dave, Vancouver, B.C.

trubluluc

....Large....

-luc

RuSsMaN

Hey Dave, what sounds better to you?

R

juice21

some will tell you small, other will say large. try both and see what YOU like... enjoy the 400! it's a great center!!

sgtgto

Hi:

For the full center effect, large.


Gary

juice21

have you experimented with adjusting your channel levels on your pre-pro to fix this? using AVIA and an SPL meter from radio shack would be an ideal way to set all your speaker levels, but if it is obviously noticible to you that the center is much louder than your fronts, you should be able to adjust for this in your pre-pro's speaker set-up...

lax01

I personally have mine sent to LARGE on my Yamaha RX-V800 but the best way to see what is best for you is to actually try it on your own system.

BTW, the large and small settings just send all signals under 80hz to the sub if set to small and send all signals to center when sent to large. I am pretty sure this is correct. I may be wrong, am I?

pdebaum

People, lax01 is correct : the SMALL or LARGE setting is just a switch for the receiver bass management scheme and has nothing to do with levels or any "bigger is better" paradigm. For a dedicated channel, LARGE means the receiver transfers the full signal from source at the receiver's input to the output at the receiver's output. SMALL means the receiver will trim out the bass (below the receiver's xover value) and route it somewhere else depending on the subwoofer setting you choose.
Now most consumers HT setups have one big powered subwoofer or dual powered subs in mains. Bass management schemes in modern receivers account for those typical setups.
The end-result is that you want ALL bass to go to that or those subwoofers. That means all speakers should be set to SMALL. Only exceptions to set a speaker to LARGE are if the subs are in the mains or if any speaker has its own integrated powered subwoofer. Then you can leave the bass in its own channel by setting that particular speaker to LARGE. Typically centers and surrounds are non-powered speakers without integrated subs, so they should always be set to SMALL. That applies to the CS400. If you had the CS1000, which has a powered sub, then you would like that speaker set to LARGE.
If you leave your CS400 to LARGE (and I assume you have a subwoofer somewhere in your system), then you incur the risk of improper bass levels.

juice21

my response regarding speaker level setting was directed to dan t, he stated that his center outweighed his fronts set either to small or large. i just wanted him to check and make sure he doesn't have his speaker levels out of whach and have the center set to like 10db above what the mains are at. i understand that setting to large or small has nothing to do with the level or volume of the speaker, it was just a trouble shooting tip for dan to double check with...

pdebaum

I understand that, juice21, no offense meant
It's so unfortunate the audio industry has decided to label the bass filtering scheme with LARGE or SMALL settings, it confuses the heck out of most people, me in front of the pack.
Why on earth didn't they call it Bass Filtering : ON or OFF ? Would have made much more sense to me.
The point to remember is that it won't make your non-powered speaker any less of a speaker if you set it to SMALL. On the contrary, it's better as long as you have some good sub elsewhere in your system.
I know how we americans are so sensitive to anything that could reduce our appetite for "LARGE" things, but this is not of those things! SMALL is better!!

lax01

Well put pdebaum! But even in the Polk manual for the CS400i, it says that on some systems it should be set to LARGE and on others SMALL. I really don't believe that because a speaker is powered or has a subwoofer has as much to do with the setting, as the frequency response. If the speaker can go as high as X and as low as Y (X, Y being different variables depending on the speakers) than it deserves the setting of LARGE or vice-versa.

The question I have is: How much material under 80Hz is actually sent to the center? Probably not that much, right?

pdebaum

Oh I agree, the frequency response is important, but at frequencies under 100Hz (or 80Hz for that matter), your non-powered woofer is going to have a hard time maintaining a good level, since that decreases sharply as you go into those regions. Bass response needs a lot of power and there isn't much a non-powered speaker can do when you hit really low Hz.
With my CS400i set to LARGE, I have really poor bass response under 80Hz in a tone down-sweeping test, to the point of a sharp drop at around 80Hz. If set to SMALL and routed to my RT2000i subs, the blending is much better and the levels much more even.

juice21

no offense taken pdebaum, i just wanted to reiterate that i was commenting to dan, as to not cause any confusion to anyone else reading that may not understand bass management...

TrappedUnder Ice

small...

peekobi

Juice,/ Anyone
What exactly does using AVIA and an SPL meter to set the speaker levels mean. I've seen this in several other posts and I'm really not sure what it means.

peekobi

ntculenuff

Originally posted by peekobi
Juice,/ Anyone
What exactly does using AVIA and an SPL meter to set the speaker levels mean. I've seen this in several other posts and I'm really not sure what it means.

peekobi

the dvd helps you adjust the levels of each speaker so that in the sweet spot you are hearing the same volyumm level out of each speaker, it also helps you with the sub volume, and goes thru all frequencys to figure out which speaks should be large or small,checks in/out of phase and a bunch of other stuff.
after i did mine it sounded much better

lax01

If you don't have an SPL meter and AVIA (OR Video Essentials) then you are not listening to your equipment properly. A SPL meter and Avia help set-up each individual speaker so that each speaker is the same volume. I highly suggest buying both because it is the single cheapest way to improve your audio.

pdebaum

I concur enthusiatically with the previous posters. The sound meter and the calibration DVD were the best bang for the buck in my system so far. The change is phenomenal, and prior to that, I was quite smug in thinking that my "by ear" calibration was sufficient... Boy, how wrong I was.

Integra

Originally posted by dan t
I noticed that my CS400i is "louder" than my monitor 10's when center is set to either small or large. I have the M10's set to small so more bass is channeled to the sub. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I also noticed that the M10's have a Efficiency of 89dB and the cs400i is 91dB. Could this be the reason for the center being "loud" more pronounced than the fronts? or a setting on the pre-amp?

It's probably because your center is more efficient so it will play louder than your fronts at the same level. Have you set your speaker levels with a sound meter?

lbrenner

I think the key ideas are all covered by the many excellent posts above, but I'd like to attempt a clarification. You didn't say if you had a sub. Assuming you don't, the idea, IMHO, is to choose large vs small for the center based on how "big" it is compared to your mains. If it's similar, as in cs400 with rt55, I'd set the center LARGE, not because the cs400 performs well below 80 cycles, but because it performs about AS WELL AS the mains (not to say that the cs400 doesn't perform well below 80...). (If you've got a subwoofer that's "larger" (bigger badder bass) than your mains, I'd almost certainly expect the best result from setting mains and center to small, and taking full advantage of that sub.)

On the other hand, if your mains are "larger" than the center, such as in the example of rt1000's, you'd want to push that center bass out to those mains, and have it handled with more authority by them.

The "fly in the ointment" that might derail my thoughts above would be if, say, the receiver crossed over at 120 cycles (I just hate it when receivers do that... mine does). Then you might notice a change in the timbre of male voices which you might or might not prefer.

Of course, nothing can substitute for trying it both ways and picking what YOU like.