Monitor 10

msjohns

A while back I bought a pair of monitor 10's from spasticpitbull ( Paul ). Well good old UPS managed to damage them on their trip to South Dakota. They had dropped them, all the drivers were froze up . Well I got my new drivers today and man do they sound great. I want to thank Paul for sticking with me through this ordeal, we got UPS to pay for the new drivers. I also want to thank Ken at Polk for the help he gave me. We managed to save a good pair of speakers. I also learned that that Polk Club members do take care of each other. Thanks again.

Mike

dorokusai

You're damn right....glad you can listen again.

nadams

Glad you got anything out of UPS... usually you'd be hard-pressed to get anything of value back from them.

Enjoy em!

outlander

msjohns,
I was wondering what you meant by the speakers froze up? I bought a pair of 10B’s from ebay and FedEx trashed mine. They ended dropping one of the boxes in my garage and cracking the cabinet. To make a long story short I ended up with $100.00 because no value was claimed by the shipper even though I had paid him for insurance. Anyway, what did UPS give you for a settlement and what does froze up mean?
O

Pauly

Originally posted by outlander
msjohns,
I was wondering what you meant by the speakers froze up? I bought a pair of 10B’s from ebay and FedEx trashed mine. They ended dropping one of the boxes in my garage and cracking the cabinet. To make a long story short I ended up with $100.00 because no value was claimed by the shipper even though I had paid him for insurance. Anyway, what did UPS give you for a settlement and what does froze up mean?
O

Exaclty how it sounds...the Mids froze up and dont work anymore. Those mids tend to do that during shipping. Lesson learned here guys. Thought i packed them puppies pretty darn good...DONT risk it. Pull the drivers out and box up seperate.

BTW Mike the check is on its way for the replacements. Still waiting on the the paperwork from UPS and snap some pics so i can see the old beauties

Pauly

outlander

You learn something new every day, never heard of the mids freezing up. I guess I lucked out because the mids seem fine on mine but I did lose a tweeter. Good luck on the refund check. FedEx put me through hell and still screwed me. It was the worst case of customer service I’ve ever experienced.
0

msjohns

Well I have been enjoying the speakers for a couple weeks now. They sound great , I am impressed. I never used to beleive that new speakers needed a break in period, but I do now. The new drivers are sounding better and better every time I use them. I replaced a pair of Marantz HD 770 with the Monitor 10's. The Marantz speakers need to have the woofers refoamed. That will be another project for later. I agree with Paul, if you have to ship speakers like the Monitor 10's remove the drivers and package them seperately.

Shizelbs

Glad to hear your positive experience. Way to get some vintage Polk away from the eastern seaboard.

discomixman

I must say since I have had my Polk Model 10B Speakers the
sound is just as good as the Day that I bought them.I must
say that these speakers were way ahead of their time in
terms of Technical innovation and design.How did Polk
do it.For you people that have never heard the Polk Model
10B, you've got to Sample a listen from them, the sound is
Mind boggleing,Great.These Speakers,the Polk 10B's were
digital ready before I even bought a CD Player.Now that
I have a DVD player that I run through my Stereo,a Digital
Sansui Integrated Amplifier,AU-G77X, with X Balanced
Amplification the Stereo sound with Dolby Surround is really
Three Dimensional.It is something I have never heard.I had
these speakers for over Ten years and they continue to
surprise me with Different Psychoaccoutical effects.Lets
face it a Stereo is only as good as the Speakers that
delivers the Stereo Sound.These Speakers are the Best
I have heard.I'am a Disco D.J. and the Disco Music runs
the Accoustical spectrum to its Limits,the Polks handle
every Record and CD that We play.By the way,being that
Polk does not make the Model10B anymore,does any one
Know How much they a Valued at?.What would be a
auction Price for a Pair of Polk Audio Model 10B? does
anybody have the current Price for these Classic
Speakers?.Get back to me Please.

Truly.
Discomixman.

sbilderb

You should hear my 10 B's, I bought them new in 1976 but, like everything else I own, I've modified them a bit. I've replaced the tweeter with a pair for EV Century 100 Monitors (haven't blown one since and the EV's sound better than the originals), out with the passive crossover, bi-amped them and drive them with all custom built/designed top end electronics.
Put on a vinyl recording of a string quartet or even a good vocal recording on CD and it makes you melt into a little puddle on the floor. Any final products from the recording studio, I always take it home and listen on my Polks before I call it done.
I've listened to almost every speaker built and I have not found anything that sounds smoother through the vocal spectrum than my 10 B's.

A simple modification you might want to try to sweeten the high frequencies of the vintage Polks. If you are handy, remove the crossover from inside the cabinet and along side each of the large electrolytic capacitors, solder on a .05-uf to .01-uf capacitor and you will hear the difference.
Why it works? The electrolytic are a coil of metal film, chokes (like the copper coils next to the electrolytic) block high frequencies, so the small capacitors allow a more linear flow of the frequencies above 5khz that the electrolytic inherently filter out.

nadams

Would it not be even better, then, to remove the electrolytic caps altogether? From what I'm reading in your post, you're just saying to solder the new caps in with the old ones... Seems that if what you're saying is true, you should replace the cap completely.

I've never heard of anyone doing these modifications to their 10b's, but if it sounds as good as you say it does, perhaps someone with a spare pair would want to give it a shot. I try to steer clear of hacking my Polks.... But I'm not that handy with a soldering iron.

dorokusai

Originally posted by sbilderb
A simple modification you might want to try to sweeten the high frequencies of the vintage Polks. If you are handy, remove the crossover from inside the cabinet and along side each of the large electrolytic capacitors, solder on a .05-uf to .01-uf capacitor and you will hear the difference.
Why it works? The electrolytic are a coil of metal film, chokes (like the copper coils next to the electrolytic) block high frequencies, so the small capacitors allow a more linear flow of the frequencies above 5khz that the electrolytic inherently filter out.

BS.

TroyD

Hunter 'em up if you want to.

Personally, if I don't like the sound of what the speaker is, I would find one that I do. Seems like in the above scenario, there would be a radical change in sound.

Minor tweaking, sure, but I'll pass on the Franken-Polk concept.

If you like 'em though, rock on.

BDT

nadams

TroyD- nice of you to water it down when doro came out and said what you were thinking

TroyD

Hey, if you think you know better than the person who designed the speaker, who am I to argue.

I'll only say that it's not my bag.

BDT

sbilderb

If the cap are 10 years old or more you might think of replacing them with new ones of the exact same value, they are part of a tuned circuit. Just solder the small caps in parallel to the electrolytic; the value of the small caps will not affect the crossover points.
By the way I have had many years in the high-end audio biz including speaker design I can and have improved on other peoples design, the difference is, I don't have to make it cost effective for mass production or make it a marketable product - just one of a kind custom units.

dorokusai

You can certainly improve some speakers, that's a given....I agree in that respect.

However, I would replace the entire component rather than parallel a new component on the board. I think a cap upgrade is a worthy venture, in addition to resistors and inductors, depending on the project but remember that these speakers are not that old. I think it's a great project to tackle, but I don't hop into the fray and recommend something in a generic fashion as a "fix" or "upgrade".

I've seen bleeding caps in very old speakers and some that are still kicking after many years of owner abuse. I've also heard negative results from board changes in that the result was not quite what was expected and sometimes the speaker simply wasn't the speaker it used to be....and that's not always positive. If you are into speaker design, I'm sure you've had disappointment as well as success, it comes with the territory.

Mass produced speakers use cost effective parts, again, a no brainer....they were also designed in a way to get the most performance given the parameters of the overall design. End result is end result.....consumers buy these things all the time at face value.

You may have improved the speaker in your opinion, or another individuals', but that doesn't make it a fact. As far as the "many years" comment goes, I personally could care less....and it doesn't really change anything.

sbilderb

TroyD
It does radically change the sound . . . all for the better! The mods did nothing to the coupling of the drivers to the cabinet so the frequency response of the lows and the mids are unchanged and the electronic crossover let's me fine-tune the crossover point and the audio level of the tweeters.

Another easier mod (or maintainance) that can/might slightly increase the low-end response is to check the gaskets behind the drivers, the cabinet needs to be as air tight as possible. With the speaker unplugged or off carefully press on the center of the passive radiator and watch how the drivers move. They should move out and then slowly back in, if they return quickly, its time re-tighten the driver screws or replace the gaskets. Those screws can work themselves loose with time.

You might ask why I do this? I've put these Polk up against speakers up to the $5,000.00 range, they may not win in the low-end department but they hold their own the rest of the way up - and I say, that is way coooooooool!

nadams

It would be nice if you would stop talking to us like we're new to this...

TroyD

Blah Blah Blah Blah.....

Again, you are no longer listening to a true Monitor 10.

Which 5K speaker are you talking about? It must REALLY suck.

Well said, I'm not an idiot, I'm more than able to form my own opinions as are others. We don't need to be talked down to.

BDT

sbilderb

dorokusai

If you are happy with what you have, GREAT! They are good right out of the box.

I admit, I'm an audio snob, my work required that I become one, and at times it's a curse. Modifying components is not for everyone, but I will post it for those that might want to give it a try.

Replacing the electrolytic will not correct the inherit fault with it's physical design, new one will have the same design. Some of the large caps will have up to 5 square feet of surface area to create the needed values and the only way to make the fit in anything is by coiling them up. The small caps pass the audio signal that the coiling process loses.

sbilderb

I'm sorry if you think I'm talking down to you, that is not my intension, but there are other readers on this post that might find my information useful, if it is not for you I'm happy with that. I had no idea that people on this post would feel threatened by someone that knows more than them.

dorokusai

I'm not threatened at all, but you are giving out generic information in regards to "improvements".

Explain, in detail, why you would piggyback a new component on an old component. That whole premise is ridiculous. There is a reason to inline board components, and it certainly isn't because of sound improvement.....its to meet design values.

You're off base and generalizing actual application theory.

TroyD

eh...whatever.

Enjoy your FrankenPolks.

Big Dumb (but VERY threatened) Troy

sbilderb

The high frequency bypass of electrolytic is a common mod done universally in the high-end biz, not only to crossovers but to all electronics requiring electrolytic components. Most of the newer high-end passive crossovers come this way right from the factory; it's bringing the older components up the newer technology. It's that simple and it works.

I installed a performance chip and a turbo-charger in my VW; does that mean I don't drive a Volkswagen any more? Maybe, to a hard core purists.

TroyD

Look, cochise, If you enjoy your speakers, fine.

However, there is a difference between 'tweaking' and fundamentally altering the speaker and in your case, IMO, you have done the latter. It may sound better to you, but there are those of us to whom it makes no sense for various reasons.

There is also the underlying premise that you are empirically 'right' while I may happen to think that what you have done altered the sound for the worse (which I think is usually the case for radically altered off the shelf designs and the only person who thinks that it sounds better is the one who altered the speaker). Now, had you said: 'This is what I did, why I did it and why I think it sounds better' and left it at that, fine.

I also take issue with the premise that a Monitor 10 of any sort is going to compare with a 5K pair of speakers. Sorry, I'm just not going to buy that particular line of reasoning unless the 5K pair of speakers is a really awful pair. Not a knock on the Monitor 10, it's a great speaker but it's not as good as the Monitor 7's and I wouldn't make such a comparison with those, either.

BDT

dorokusai

Originally posted by sbilderb
The high frequency bypass of electrolytic is a common mod done universally in the high-end biz, not only to crossovers but to all electronics requiring electrolytic components. Most of the newer high-end passive crossovers come this way right from the factory; it's bringing the older components up the newer technology. It's that simple and it works.

I installed a performance chip and a turbo-charger in my VW; does that mean I don't drive a Volkswagen any more? Maybe, to a hard core purists.

Nope, sorry, see you later....nice try.

BlueMDPicker

As a caveat, I'll state the fact that I have NOT seen a schematic for the 10B crossover. That being said, I have studied the crossover of the SDA SRS to the point that I believe I understand the design concept.

The HF circuitry of that model does employ paralleled caps - a 750 pF silver mica over a 12 uF electrolytic, and an identical silver mica and 4.4 uF electrolytic over a 22.5 ohm resistor to T3 - not, I believe, to achieve a modified value. Rather, their purpose seems to be a bypass to allow desired speed response for the HF.

Perhaps of interest to those contemplating the cap/resistor upgrade to the SRS, which DarqueKnight documented so completely for the forum, is the fact he doesn't mention replacing the silver mica caps.

Looks like Matt was (again) well ahead of his time with the design if

Originally posted by sbilderb
The high frequency bypass of electrolytic is a common mod done universally in the high-end biz...

sbilderb

>. . .you have done the latter. It may sound better to you, but there are those of
> us to whom it makes no sense for various reasons.

May I kindly say that if it makes no sense to you, maybe you should hold your judgment until it does. If you try to prove your point based on self-imposed ignorance you'll never win or learn. I not a kid in the basement just tossing stuff together, there are years of design and testing to support each project. If you have evidence to any error on my part I'll gladly address it.

Over the years I have set my Polk’s up on a one-on-one comparison to the many of B&W line, Magniplainers, JBL and EV studio line and many more. Once the passive crossovers are bypassed, it is amazing how smooth the mids are - up to 120 db at three feet, and the low starts rolling off about 10 db per octave at 75 hertz (not so good if you like techno). FYI: not one of my components can be bought at Best Buy or Circuit City, which also can make a big difference.

nadams

We can pass judgement whenever we damn well please. I passed some judgement a few minutes ago, as a matter of fact..

Anyway, it doesn't make sense because you're leaving the old components in the signal path. If you want to put different caps in, replace them completely, don't just add on.

Saying that we can't make a judgement call until it makes sense to us is saying that we're not allowed to disagree with you. That's not what this is all about....

Tour2ma

Originally posted by sbilderb
I admit, I'm an audio snob, my work required that I become one, and at times it's a curse.

... and it's the arrogance that's coming through to which people are reacting.

Since you recognize it, just contain it and persuade without the self-aggrandizing commentary.