How come?

VR3

Ok, I have emailed two companies over the course of the past couple of years...

1) Outlaw Audio and 2) Def Tech

Outlaw concerning the 'current' of their amps, and their response is there is no standard to how this is measured, and no manufacture is measured the same and the 'current rating' means nothing...

Ok, fine, I can deal with that, dosnt bother me...

And today...

I e-mail Def Tech, asking about the Frequency Response of their speakers. They said that there is no standard on how to measure the -3db response of a speaker, and that no manufacture does it the same... so all they do is list the overall response...

So, with this - I ask WHY? Whats the point? Why isnt there a standard for these things? Basically, any specs we can find - they are useless...

Funny - lol

EricH

I find that when companies avoid publishing their specs, I myself quickly move on. However, I'm sure that they have learned that most buyers don't know the tricks of the "spec game", so they are leary to post their own.

On the other side of the fence, look at HK, there specs are conservative and realistic, and have been for a long time. That's why I own one. :-)

steveinaz

I'd question the quality of both of those companies if they couldn't answer that.

That's pure BS, plain and simple. Now go buy a Parasound amp and some Polk speakers....LOL

VR3

Its not a matter of not posting a specs, both companies I mentioned list specs, and are not reluctant to list other specs upon request (atleast Def Tech isnt, I dunno bout Outlaw) -

Its more so, why isnt there a standard? HK is no exception, they measure their stuff different from the rest too.

Def Tech said if I wanted the -3db response, just request and he would have an engineer measure it for me...

He said there just is no standard to it.

EricH

Yes, they do, but put a 50 watt HK reciever up against the average 50 watt reciever, and you'll see what I mean.

They also post current capability.

VR3

>>> The published specifications on our loudspeakers list their overall frequency response.
(This simply means that a given speaker will respond to these frequencies.) I do not have a list of the 3 db frequency response on our loudspeakers, however, if there is a model or two you're considering, I'll have an engineer measure the 3 db response of this speaker for you.

Unfortunately, not all 3db frequency response specifications you'll read are measured under the same conditions.- (Meaning, the measurements from one loudspeaker company may have been conducted under one set of conditions, while the measurements from another company may have been taken under a completely different set of conditions.) There are no industry standards that all loudspeakers companies follow. Specifically, where do you place the measuring microphone (on the floor, or suspended directly in front of the speaker - and at what distance).- Where do you place the speaker, on a stand or on the floor.- Do you take room reflections into consideration?- If you don't, it's difficult to accurately measure a bipolar speaker....... So, be careful when you compare specs from one company to another.- If at all possible, I'd recommend auditioning our loudspeakers (and any others that you're considering) and trust your ears. <<<

VR3

I dont care what they post, there just isnt a standard, and I wanna know WHY... what is so hard to grasp about the question?

Steve...

I'll buy some Polks when you buy some Polks, fair?

EricH

I'm sure you'll expect the dealers best price when you buy your first car too. Doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. There will always be companies playing the numbers game when it comes to specifications.

VR3

What is it with this forum and car comparisons? I mean seriously... LOL

So are you saying HK posts the highest numbers they can... or?

So basically, every company is different, and no one should go by specs alone even if there is no way to demo?

Just curious why there just isnt some kind of standard to be followed...

EricH

Kinda. There are certain specs that mean more than others, and you are right there with the +/- 3db FR test, current capability etc. It's true that some companies will play with speaker placement etc on a FR test, but what do you do, throw out all data? They know what their speakers test at. Don't let them fool ya.

What I do is take all of the specs I can get, and combine them with all of the feedback that I get on these forums. That is the only option other than listening to a product.

Oh, and also buying it cheap enough to get your money back out of it if it sucks!

VR3

I agree - but like I said, I asked for the -3db on my speaker, just to know it, dosnt bother me or anything...

As for current, after knowing there is no standard, I dont even look at that...

And that brings me to another question...

How can something have 200 amps and a 20 amp fuse? etc

EricH

Since there is no set standard for any consumer electronic specs, you might as well not look at anything. Suppers calling.

VR3

Your probally right...

I like Russ's math, I was checking all of my 2 channel amps to make sure they matched and their all dead on with Russ's math...

Max watt consumption divided by 2.5, divided by 2 - that will be the watts per channel (of a 2 channel amp)...

Adcom GFA-545 = 500 watts max
divided by 2.5 = 200, divided by two = 100

The 545 is 100 x2 at 8 ohms!

Ah well, just wish there was some kind of standard...

Early B.

Look at it this way -- if it were in the manufacturers' best interest (i.e., more money), there would be standards established already. Truth is -- manufacturers stretch the truth (i.e., lie) all the time about their specs because it's a marketing tool for them. The industry is not going to police itself, and most consumers are not knowledgeable enough to lobby the government to create and enforce standards. So, you're only left with one thing -- Buyer Beware.

Mjr7531

Agreed Early, but, There is a new IEC Opt. Compliance going around for Car amps. It's a damn shame that the law regarding amplifier measurement didn't get updated with the popularity of multichannel amp. If you look at any receiver, it's 100 x 5 (@ 1kHz ) and for stereo it's a 100 x 2 full bandwidth, a law is there for standardization, just companies follow the letter of the law, not the spirit.

Tour2ma

Sid,

The government cracked down on audio mfg's when it came to power output, but did not address current output. So companies are still free to play with that measurement.

Almost all mfg's use peak to peak at clipping. Most will use single cycle bursts, not continuous signals Most do not quote the frequency of the test signal.

On speaker FR's... designs like Def Tech's with side firing drivers have a legitimate issue with conventional approach to FR measurement since the traditional measurement utilizes a single mic in an anechoic room.

VR3

Your right, Def Tech with its rear firing drivers would not give near the performance in a chamber that eliminated reflections, because - well... the design relies on it...

Current was something I use to think was important with an amp because it said if it was high current or not, now we know that is just a placebo effect, just something to get sales - pffffttt...

Watt rating are BS too... lool...

Ah well, I really like companies like Polk, SVS, DT, Outlaw, etc that will answer just about any questions you have as long as it dosnt risk revealing 'secrets' of their current lines...

Ah well, I just wish there was *SOME* type of standard, would make decision making a bit easier...

Time to start saving for bigger, badder Definitives...

Gotta collect em all... my goal is to get one with a MTM design, silky mids dude... smooooooooth

BUAHAHHA

VR3

My speakers -3db response, mic on floor, 1 meter away, in that anechoic (however u spell it) chamber...

is...


are you ready?????



































27hz to 20khz - I can easily believe that... I'm amazed by these things constantly with their response...freakin stellar