Center channel match to R50's? (long)

RawDeal

hi all,

I've searched through the forum archives and while this seems to be a common question, I wasn't able to find all the information I was looking for. I've also email Polk CS and got only partial answers to my questions.


The subject line pretty well describes my basic question, but here are a few more details and confusing and contradictory statements I've found while researching this:


It seems that the (now discontinued) CSi20 is the only center channel truly designed to go with the R series speakers as it is the only one which uses the same 3/4" tweeter and is the only one described by the company as "timbre matched to the R-series". Fine, but I have a couple of concerns about the CSi20: 1.) It's discontinued and difficult to find and 2.) Given that I'll be using it largely for HT where the center channel is very important, my impression is that it may be a bit overmatched by the R50's. I haven't listened to it yet w/ R50's, but the fact that it has fewer, smaller drivers, is slightly less efficient, smaller freq. response range, has a MUCH lower power handling capacity and is just an all around cheaper speaker, I am concerned that is not really the sonic equal of the R50's, and I'd perfer not to cut corners on my center channel. Would anyone care to share an opinion on this?


Here's where I start to get confused, I'm sorry if this gets a little hard to follow.

The web page for the R50 also recommends the CSi30 in more expensive configurations. Great, I have another choice. However, the CSi30 page claims it is matched to the RTi line, not the R line and this seems to make sense since the the CSi30 uses the larger 1" tweeter found in the RTi line. Hmmmm. But, perhaps this isn't a big deal, maybe the R-series and RTi-series are very similar in character and hence can use the same center channels. The current RTi models are also matched to the CSi3 and CSi5 center speakers. So these should therefore be good matches to the R-series as well, right?

Apparently not, Polk CS actually claims that (if I couldn't get a CSi20) the R-series is actually most similar to the Monitor series and thus the best choices are the CS1 and CS2. My head hurts from trying to figure out how all this works. Does anyone actually understand how the whole Polk family fits together? What lines sound the most similar or different? Which lines have been/ will be replaced by which lines? It all seem rather random to me.


So on to the real fundamental question: Which center channel should I be trying to get to go with the R50's? I want a high quality, capable speaker as it will be getting heavy use in HT (thus my concern about the CSi20) but it is also important that it be tonally well matched to my R50's. I'm at a bit of a loss.


Perhaps I'm making to much of this, and perhaps any of the speakers mentioned above will sound very similar, and I do understand that a lot of this is just marketing. But it doesn't seem that it should be so difficult to determine which center speaker(s) are the best matches.


One final question. Given the difficulties finding a center channel match, what are the advantages/disadvantages to just flopping an R-series speaker (maybe even another R50:D) on it's side for a center channel? They're supposed to be fully shielded. Is there something fundamentally different in the radiation pattern or tuning or anything else that makes true center channel speakers better suited for the task? Or is it purely a matter of aesthetics?


Sorry for the length of this post, I hope that in addition to asking my questions, others having the same problem as me will learn something from the details I've included.

Thanks.

VR3

Any of them...

I would get the CS2

but the CS1 and CSi30 would do fine...

And there are no disadvantages of running a regular speaker, tower, etc as a center..

burly

RawDeal:

I have the R50's with a Csi30 for my center and they sound great. I can not tell the difference in the tweeters after setting up my system.

It is gettting more difficult to find the older centers, Csi30 & 40 so you may try to match with the newer versions.

If you have a Fry's near you can hear the R50's with different centers.

aubrey jeffcote

I am trying to make the same decision as you,RAWDEAL.Just bought R-50's for front's along with a CSi3.That center sounds a little brighter than the fronts.Tried a CS1 and while it is a better match than the CSi3,I'm still not satisfied.Tried an R15 for the center,and I can't hear a big difference between it and the CSi3.Now I'm taking back the CS1 + the CSi3.Gonna try the CS2 at home.It definately has a deeper tone than the CS1.I'll post my resulting opinion later. Of course an R-30 would be the most logical choice if you've got one.

TheReaper

Originally posted by RawDeal
...One final question. Given the difficulties finding a center channel match, what are the advantages/disadvantages to just flopping an R-series speaker (maybe even another R50:D) on it's side for a center channel? They're supposed to be fully shielded. Is there something fundamentally different in the radiation pattern or tuning or anything else that makes true center channel speakers better suited for the task? Or is it purely a matter of aesthetics?...

Personnally, I think it is just a matter of aesthetics.

RawDeal

Thanks for the replies, seems to be a helpful comminity here.

Sounds like several of the center channel speakers, though perhaps not perfect matches, are pretty close and sound good with R50 mains. Most people seemed pretty happy with the CSi30, CS1 and CS2. Perhaps the the CSi3 is not the best match, at least Polk customer service got that one right.

I will perhaps take the suggestion to go to a showroom and try to compare different centers with the R50's for myself, but I find that these are usually not great environments for comparison and almost never do they have the speakers properly calibrated (ie compensating for different efficiencies), so results of listening tests there are a bit suspect.

I will be quite interested in aubrey's impressions of the CS2 with the R50's, though I wouldn't expect a huge difference in tonal character between the CS1 and CS2, but you never know. Aubrey, I'll keep an eye out for your thoughts on the CS2.


I see TheReaper has gone the 3xR50 route. I tossed one of my R50's on top of the TV to see how it would look. Since I using a big ole' 64" projection TV, sizewise it doesn't look out of place at all. Indeed, my only complaint is that it looks asymetric with the port to one side (mine is more noticable than TheReapers because I have the Cherry finish, the port is almost invisible on TheReaper's with the black finish) and to get the proper staging, I'll also have to offset it from the center since the drivers are all at the top of the enclosure. Nonetheless, it seems like using an R30 or R50 might be a viable option for me and I'm seriously considering it.

Any further thoughts are appreciated. Thanks again to those that responded.

VR3

A PAIR of R50's for centers

ivansfo

Went through the same ordeal about 2 months ago. Got four R50s for front and surrounds. Needed a center channel so Polks website said the Csi20 is a match. So I buy a brand new one on Ebay for about $60 which was a very good deal. I listened to it for a few weeks and found that the Csi20 is not as efficient as my R50s. Dialog from my movies didn't come out as loud and clear as I thought it could be. So now I'm wanting more so I start researching.

Polks website also says Csi30 is a match too. So I go shopping for those but found none for sale locally nor online. These are even harder to find so I contact Polk customer service. They said the Csi30 has been discontinued and the timbre matched center is now the Csi3. If this was the case, then why the heck do they list the Csi20 and Csi30 on the website!! Obviously they are just recommending the "next best" thing because the ideal matching center has been discontinued.

So now I consider buying used. On Ebay I kept getting outbided for Csi30s until I decided to just go for it. Finally paid about $150 for a used Csi30. Plugged it in and I must admit it does look and sound better than the Csi20.

Sold the Csi20 to a co-worker who also bought a pair of R50s from Fry's.

If you can, get the Csi30. I think you'll be happy with it.

shaddai

Rawdeal,

The CS1 does a good job with a pair of R50's flanking it. I only notice a difference in the "voice" when doing test tones using Avia calibration (don't notice anything when watching a movie). As suggested, you could always use an R15 or R20 as your center channel but it may be no different than the CSi20 since they're all single woofer solutions. I wouldn't suggest using an R50 on its side due to lack in aesthetics and difficulty in balancing the front soundstage (sorry, Reaper).

The CS2 theoretically is a better match with the same size woofers as the R50 but the larger tweeter size will still throw you off. The Polk website recommends CS2 for the Monitor 70's due to it's plentiful overall woofer surface area.

In short, stick with the CS1/CS2 sine they should be easier to return in local stores if the audition doesn't go well. You may have a tougher time with Ebay and other online retailers for the CSi series.

TheReaper

Originally posted by shaddai
...I wouldn't suggest using an R50 on its side due to lack in aesthetics and difficulty in balancing the front soundstage (sorry, Reaper)...

What you do have to worry about with three R50s across the front, is how they will balance against the surrounds. In the case of lets say two R20s for surrounds, a front stage of three R50s would overpower the rear stage. In my case, I have four R30s for surrounds, which can balance against the three R50s across the front.