What should I get for the rears in 7.1/SACD setup?

newsman

Here is the scoop. I have 800i, 400i and 500fx i for my current 5.1 HT/Music rig. In short what should I add as a pair of back channel surrounds?

Currently my front 3 speakers correspond to the standard configuration of the SACD setup, which works really well for the HT. That is, my front speakers form an arch and on the equal distance from the listener. My rears though are to the sides of the listener, it's optimal for HT but not good for M-ch SACD playback.

I'm thinking about buying another pair of surrounds and placing them so that they would create standard SACD config, that is 110 degrees from the user in the back. I think same setup will work for the future 7.1 channel, whenever I'll be ready for it.

I'm glad you made so far so here the ultimate question. What should I buy for the rears. SACD says match all speakers, I don't know if it's feasible for me to buy 800i. 55i are not an option cause for the price it's a 800i - "integrated" stand. What about 600i or 35i. Although here choice is harder as there is a $200 difference (i figure stands are more like $100)... and so on.

So any suggestions?

juice21

rt35i's would work great!

OrangeToupee

Yes, the 35i's would be a delightful choice of speaker!

newsman

Well don't you guys think that RT600i are actually a better deal, considering that 35i will require stands and those run for about $90. Technically price difference between 35i plus stands and 600i will be about $50. But I do agree that maybe getting same speaker array for rears (i.e. 2mid bass + tweeter) might not be nessesary even for SACD. So I guess it's down to RT600 and 35. I thought so...
p.s
Man i'm kinda pissed at the whole situation. I didn't really planned to lay any kind of cash on speakers now. But the thing is, I want for all of my speakers to tremble match, specificly for SACD. Since Polk discontinues RTi line, I'm afraid I won't be able to match new RTs with my present setup... Arggg.

OrangeToupee

I too was forced into making some hasty decisions, I bought the 35i's because I knew my window of opportunity was limited and that I had to have them at some point. So my hand was forced. I still need to acquire the CS245i, but I'm betting that I can get that somehow and somewhere.

Just a thought, but the thing about stands is that, well, now you've got stands. You know, you can always use them for something, even if you eventually sell your 35i's, you'll still have stands for your next pair of beautifully imaging bookshelvers. That wouldn't be the case with a purchase of tower speakers. Aesthetically, I find that a pair of bookshelf speakers on stands is really quite pleasing ... not sure if that's any kind of concern of yours or not.

Also, and I know that in theory the 35i's and 600i's are in essence identical, but I've read from various sources that the 35i's are quite possibly Polk's best of the RT line. Maybe I only remember what I like to hear, but that's the reason I got them instead of the 6ooi's.

begbie

newsman,
I also have the same speaker setup as you, I went with the another pair of rt800i's for 7.1 and multi-channel music.
I made my decision based on dvd-audio because in this early stage of the game, dvd-audio has no bass management.Although
it eventually will.
Sacd does have bass management so you could still go with a pair of book shelves. Bookshelves is a nice compromise for 7.1
and multi-channel music. They can be raised to closely match the fx500i's height for seamless surround effects and still sound well
for sacd/dvd-audio.
I guess you should base it on what's more important,
7.1 or sacd ?
For me, multi channel music won me over 7.1 .

rskarvan

My Denon DVD-A 3300 DOES have bass management.
Its built into the DVD player. I think this makes this
DVD player unique. You actually set up large vs. small and
speaker distance (delay) right on the DVD setup menu.

begbie

rskarvan,

Correct me if I'm wrong but virtually all dvd-audio players to date
have no bass management. Although future ones will and future receivers. Also they will add the missing time delays for dvd-a.

The settings you see may refer to your built in DD/dts decoder.

newsman

Have you guys heard about Outlaw Audio bass management device. Granted, you'll need twice as many interconnects as you have present (it is a pass through device that uses line level), but if you are not too picky about what cable you have you can achieve some nice results. The unit even has selectable crossover points for each channel!

I liked your idea of 800i but I'm thinking that it might be overkill. I think the only time you'll need true identical speakers for m-ch is if you were having m-ch mix of Techno or House, where all speakers would equally contribute to the sound. As it stands, now rear speakers are used for echoes, backup voice etc. That's how I’m focusing right now on 600i or 35i. Don't get me wrong though, if I had money I would get 800i for the rears! After all with 400i center that would be the closest thing to 5 identical speakers....Hmmmm...Contributions anyone?

Ah crap I'm depressed now. As far as HT goes, i think even DD says that your rear speakers shouldn't be that much higher than when you are seating. I still think that tower has more advantage over bookshelf/stand config, since tower is more stable, and actually has drivers located higher. So I guess for SACD rear towers will be just <excellent>, and “only” <very good> for HT.

avelanchefan

One thing I have to say is that I really liked the 35i's....then I saw an online article at stereophile.com (sept issue) that had a glowing review of the 25i's. So I ended up with them instead.

newsman

Hmm, you have LSi7 for the fronts. Don't you have a problem with speakers sounding completely different? The rest of your setup is RTi series. Interesting.

avelanchefan

Hmm I never looked at it that way. I thought you at least wanted to keep the speakers from the same manufacturer. (Same type of construction etc...) I guess I would not know the difference until I heard a whole LSi setup together. Which I am sure there would be one.

But I am more than satisfied with my setup and the way it sounds. To me it sounds great. I have also had a few buddies over and they were amazed at the sound. But I also think a good receiver has something to do with that also.

newsman

Hmm, whould you do a little test for us? Using your receiver can you put cycling test tone to go trhough the speakers and see if the tone of the sound changes as it goes from speaker to speaker. Also look up any DVD you have where there is a voice or sound panning from side of the screen to the other, through center and see if you notice a change.

avelanchefan

Ok I did the tone test. Now you are freaking me out a bit. Well not really but there was change in the tone. So what am I losing sound wise? To me I just don't hear it. The 7's and the CS245i are the same, the 25i's are little "lighter" in sound.

avelanchefan

Playing DVD's with dialogue....I do not hear any change in sound. Played when Harry Met Sally (restaurant scene) and to me the sound was perfect through the center. But I am an amateur at this stuff so maybe there is something that I am missing.

newsman

No, no no mixing speakers doesn't make them sound worse.:) Sorry if I dindn't make it clear. Basically LSi use different set of tweeter and drivers than the RTi - thus there is a good chance that tonal represantation between them will be different It's not the same as sound quality though, as LSi will be clearly superiour - smoother, more dynamic etc. What you care here is that all of your speakers will sound similar in a "tonal" sense. For example, if in a movie a person would walk from left to right. As the voice is heard first from the left speaker, than center, than right - it should be of a similar pitch, that is you wouldn't get weird feeling as the actuall voice pitch is changing as it moves from speaker to speaker.
My test tone example was a really bad one, but it's a first step of checking whether different model speakers match with each other. Your rear 25i sound lighter to you probably due to them having smaller bass drive, but tonnally they should/will sound comparable to 245i center you have, since they use same tweeter.
Is it more clear now? I hope I didn't confuse you even more.

bbriedis

Regarding using RT25i or RT35i for the rear speakers, do they sound good if mounted on a stand? Most recommendations say that the rears should be about 2 feet or so above the listener. On a normal size stand, the rears would be about ear level or maybe slightly below. How do they sound at this level?

Bob

avelanchefan

Here is how my rears are set. Now the back of my sectional is a little high, but when playing movies, or kicking back listening to music I feel I do not lose anything. Plus I personally did not want to mount these. I think preference can be a big factor with rear speakers.

avelanchefan

Sorry but the lighting in my basement is something left to be desired. Plus it is very overcast here today. Here is a pick of my ront speakers also.

joe logston

i thank that multi-channel should have all the same speakers for the best sound but sometimes you cant do it, because of the room or the money to do it, but if you can do it, it is the best way.

juice21

avelanchefan - those fronts/center are up there pretty high. it's hard to tell from the photo, but have you experimented with angling those down towards the listening position? just a thought. man, those LSi7's are beautiful... now, you just need the LSiCenter:D

avelanchefan

Oh man I would love the LSi center:)

The speakers are about head high when standing. I have actually always liked this setup for me for some reason. Plus I have little boys.....and well they have sticky fingers, so it is also a security thing too. I have enough probs keeping them off my psw350.:rolleyes:

begbie

avalanchefan,

How do the tweeters sound on the LSi7's ? My understanding is that it makes a huge difference in sound stage.

Integra

Your tweeters are supposed to be at your seated ear level. I hear you on the kid security thing but you should at least angle them down. I had to do that with my cs 400i because it's on top of a 56" tv. Much better!