Bi-wire A and B?

Adrien Wagner
Adrien Wagner Posts: 4
edited February 2005 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I just got some RTi8 towers and I have trouble finding information on Bi-wiring, I have a Sony DE595 Receiver and it has speaker "A" and speaker "B" slots and an option to run them both, so my curiousity got me and I Bi-wired using both slots and it sounds great, but I have nothing to compare it to. Is that how you're supposed to Bi-wire, am I dumb? is there another way? Should I splurge for another amplifiier so I can Bi-amp?
Post edited by Adrien Wagner on
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2005
    I'm sorry man, and I'm a Sony fan, but bi-wiring should be the least of your worries.

    Buy some Sony ES, or look into another brand of AVR or separate amplification.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited January 2005
    The connection your descibing is Bi-amp, not by wire. You do have something to compare it to, simply disconnect the speaker wires from the "B' terminals and from the speakers. Re-install the the jumpers on your speakers and your back to the standard connection. Listen to it foe a while and see how it sounds.

    BTW, There are a bunch of threads here regarding bi-amp/biwire.
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  • gregit
    gregit Posts: 284
    edited January 2005
    hmmmm...how can it be bi-amp unless there are 2 amps running separate A & B outputs? Isn't the A B selector only a switch? Seems like it would be bi-wire in this case.
    Greg

    My System
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2005
    It's ghetto bi-amping at it's finest.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • Pinktulip7
    Pinktulip7 Posts: 249
    edited January 2005
    Dude do your homework first....What do you want realy?
    TV :>Panasonic TC-P55VT50
    RECEIVER :> HARMAN KARDON AVR 7300
    FRONT :> L & R :> POLK RTI A9 500 W
    AMP :1> PARASOUND HALO A21 250 W
    AMP :2> EMOTIVA UPA-1 200 W
    CENTER :> POLK LSiM 706c 250 W
    SURROUND SIDE :> POLK RTi A3 150 W
    SURROUND REAR :>POLK FXI A6 150 W
    DVD PLAYER(HD) :>TOSHIBA HD X-A2
    DVD PLAYER(BLU-RAY) :>Panasonic DMP-UB900
    POWER CONDITIONER :> PANAMAX M5400-EX
    SUBWOOFER :A> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Front
    SUBWOOFER :B> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Rear
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  • Adrien Wagner
    Adrien Wagner Posts: 4
    edited January 2005
    see, what I did was hook the high input on tower 1 & 2 to slot "A" and the low input on tower 1 & 2 to slot "B"............ Like I said, it sounds good this way but could I harm my stuff? Is there another hook-up that sounds better? I have muscular dystrophy so. the least amount of messing around and expirementing is what I'm looking for.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2005
    When the AVR shuts down with a message like "Protection", is when you are on your way to harming the unit. If that hasn't shown up yet, business as usual.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    You're bi-wiring- the A and B buttons just close relays to hook those speaker jacks to the left and right amps. So you'd get basically the same thing hooking both wires to the A output... but it's probably easier to hook them up to the seperate jacks. Don't worry about harming your amp- basically all you've done is move where the High & low are connected from those jumpers at the back of the speaker to a connection inside the amp.

    However, like the other guy said, you've got a lot more to worry about- like why are you using Sony?
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by unc2701
    However, like the other guy said, you've got a lot more to worry about- like why are you using Sony?

    I am "other guy".

    Here we go, with the general comments about Sony and how they suck.

    I would love to hear you elaborate about your Sony experience(s). Please elaborate extensively.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Adrien Wagner
    Adrien Wagner Posts: 4
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by dorokusai
    I am "other guy".

    Here we go, with the general comments about Sony and how they suck.

    I would love to hear you elaborate about your Sony experience(s). Please elaborate extensively.


    I'm probably not the person to talk about Sony because they're basically all I've used and know (they're the right price for me) but my Dad has a pioneer receiver thats about 3 yrs old and it uses the same technology as my 1 yr sony. My brother has a sony HTB and he loves it, it is newer more expensive sony and it is the best I've ever seen. with sony I would conclude That the higher end more expensive stuff will perform wonderfully however I have heard and read that Denon outperforms in DVD,AVR but the prices get up there and anything over $1000 is out of my league.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    Adrien - I was directing that at UNC, not you, I apologize for not making that a little clearer.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    I should clarify- Sony TV's- great, awesome, love them. Sony computers- way overpriced, but at least they look good. Sony audio- sucks. Everything bad that has ever been said about solid state amplifers is true for Sony. They're harsh, grainy, noisy, distort well below their rated specs, can't drive low impedence loads... Up until the govt. made them change, they would advertise their peak wattage instead of the RMS, so a 70 watt Onkyo could blow away a 110 watt Sony. Mass market at its worst.

    Now, I probably haven't given their top end a fair shot- I auditioned their top of the line receiver last time I was in the market and thought it sound like crap, but it was on the store's speakers and they weren't playing my kind of music... so maybe with a decent setup, they'd be ok, but for the cost, you might as well go to seperates and pick up an old adcom, bryston, NAD, rotel, etc for a power amp.

    In the under $1000 league for a receiver, go with yamaha, onkyo, Dennon. I've got nothing against HK and the ones I've heard sounded fine, but I've also heard plenty of complaints about them breaking.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by Adrien Wagner
    I Bi-wired using both slots and it sounds great...
    That's all that matters...

    Welcome to the forum...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    Ah, the atypical generalizations, an expected response.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    That's it? ;)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    uhhh, how about the fact that their top of the line receiver has an advertised THD of 0.15%? I mean, that's not just bad, that's terrible... but if you like, 'em, knock yourself out
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    Now you're going to piss off the Carver fans, too...

    0.15% THD at rated output is negligible.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    hehe... yeah, I don't like those either... but I'm using brystons, which you can crank about 25% past their rated power and still not see 0.08%. I agree that there more to it than specs, but when 1) they sound bad to me and 2)they've got bad specs, you gotta go with something else. For me, just about anything but sony will do.:)
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited February 2005
    I dragged a pair of 7B-ST's home, found the Bryston sound to be cold even run through a CJ 17LS.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by unc2701
    1) they sound bad to me and 2)they've got bad specs, you gotta go with something else. For me, just about anything but sony will do.:)
    Cool... how about a nice Panasonic??? ;)

    For most of us your #1, how it sounds is enough...

    Look, no one is saying that Sony basic line is great stuff. It isn't, but what it is is decent entry level gear on the whole with some pieces that are better than others. General bashing is just not called for.... and no, doro's opening remark was not bashing, but rather a comment that bi-wiring entry level gear should not be a priority.

    Sony ES is a completely different class of gear than their base line. Great? Again depends on the piece in the line. Some are certainly near great...

    As for Bryston spec's, they are simply ultraconservative. And in the class of gear they compete, they can afford to take that approach...

    How does Bryston sound? Like F1, I found Bryston left something to be desired. He said, "cold". Similarly in the audition I had years ago, I found them to be kinda "analytical"... TBH, couldn't even start to explain what brought me to that, but that's the word that has stuck with me...

    Not meaning this as backlash...

    EDIT: I have audio biases as well... I either refrain from any comment on Pioneer gear, any level of it, or at the very least state that I have a bias against it...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    panasonic? how 'bout a nice technics? :eek: So, yeah, I take your point. I'll back off my "sony sucks" and offer that I don't like the way sony overinflates their wattage by having rediculously high distortion compared to other receivers and they shouldn't have to do that on their high end or their low end. oh, and personally I don't like the sony sound.

    As for the brystons, yep, they're cold. But if there was a noisy slider on the mixing board in the studio where the CD was recorded, I want to hear it. Some people want to cover it up with nice warm amp, but not me. Granted they will drive you nuts trying to find the bad cable in your system that's making that noise when it's just something on the recording.

    Wow... this has totally wandered off topic- my bad.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    I think Adrien got the info needed... and a bunch of entertainment to boot.

    Funny you made the comment you made on the Bryston. Spoke to one owner who said it was a totally revealing amp, that it would expose any weakness, anywhere in your rig... Maybe I was talking to you.... ;)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    nah, I'm new around here... but I gotta agree with whoever you were talking to- there's a reason why just about every studio uses them... if it's there, you'll hear it.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by unc2701
    nah there's a reason why just about every studio uses them...

    While that's not true it may explain why we have such crappy recordings from many studio's. Everybody knows that the best studio's use tube gear.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited February 2005
    ok, two clarifications:
    1)"every studio" is an exaggeration, but they're very popular... Abby Road, Capitol, atlantic, HBO, and lucasfilm use them just to name a few...
    2)They use them to power studio monitors

    Now I don't disagree, good studios will have mic preamps, guitar amps, a variety of effects, etc that are tube rather than SS... and they'll have some tube power amps on hand to power their monitors if someone wants 'em. But most sound engineers are going to want SS for monitoring, simply because tube amps are too forgiving... They'll play over a crappy recording and sound great and that's exactly what you don't want for monitoring. You'll tend to see tube for most stuff before the tape, SS for stuff after the tape.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i
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