Fellow RT2000I brothers

xfontanax

I would be interested to hear of any tweaks for the 2000is that you have tried. Has anyone ever been interested in bypassing the internal amps and use a seperate amp? I would! How? not sure, but if anyone has tried this- Sound Off!!

presidan

Try replacing the polk jumpers with good quality bridges maybe.

pdebaum

Here's a tip if you use line-level sub inputs to your receiver's pre-outs or sub-out and you are annoyed by the too low sensitivity of the internal amps when listening to low level stereo material :

- Increase the receiver levels unilateraly. This would raise the RT2000i subs sensitivity until you find the right comfortable level for your quiet listening. Mine needed +12dB on the front-left and front-right before the sub amps could turn on at my reasonable stereo low level listening.

Problem doesn't exist with speaker-level inputs by the way.

xfontanax

Actually, I have them bi amp'd (2-channel amp per speaker) and the bass is too boomy. I would like to rip out the polk sub (or bypass) and just use my own if possible. Or get rid of them and try the new Lsi speaker.

pdebaum

Most of the time, boomy bass is due to an overdriven sub amp, or it could be some basic bass management setup issue on the A/V amp. For the former, try lowering your volume dial on the subs. I also used to have occasional boomy bass on my RT2000i, and found out my subs were set too high (by 12 dB!) after performing a calibration with a sound meter. I just couldn't believe it as I would have sworn I had my levels pretty much equalized by ear. But human ears are easily fooled by low frequencies and think they are quieter than they really are.
I was dubious at first because I was so used to my overdriven bass that I perceived the new setting lacking in bass. But after several days of listening various sources, especially stereo music, I began to feel a new integration of my lows and mid-range, which now sounds fantastic. I think this is what everybody refers as "tighter" bass

xfontanax

With my current setup, do you recommend I go with a preamp input into the polk's sub? I've tried it and It sounds good, I just have to turn the bass volume up. Then there's the problem of shutting off during periods of inactivity during movies. How do you do yours?

pdebaum

For the woofers, whether you use speaker-level or pre-outs (to line-in), it shouldn't matter as both will ultimately go through the sub's amp. By using the woofer speaker binding posts, you will use the speaker's optimized crossover and this is ultimately the Polk recommended way. By using line-level and removing the binding posts jumpers, you will bypass the woofer's crossover and thus have a chance to try your own experimentations, such as bi-amping and even some kind of bi-wiring. The disadvantage of using line-level, as I said before, is the too low sensitivity of the auto on/off sub amp switch. Counter that by boosting subwoofer (or front left/right) levels on your A/V amp. The other disadvantage of line-level is that it will take you more tweaking to get satisfying results. But ultimately, using this unfiltered line-level input in your subs has the potential to give you better results than the filtered speaker-level input. So for your setup with separate A/V amp for the woofers, it should be best.
But invest in some calibration gear if you can. It makes all the difference in the world. I recommend the AVIA calibration DVD and a good sound meter.

joe logston

i run 5 powered subs 2 psw-650s and use the polk rt-20p subs, split from the 650 and one 15" 200w sub, i turn them down low so i dont get no boomy bass, i get real tight clean 3 dementional bass, i can hear all the highs real clear, and have real deep bass. its all off my receiver 2 lfe rca out puts and the last # 3 lfe out put goes to the 15" sub. i take off the bridges from the rt-20ps. the rt-20 p is almost like the rt- 2000i

xfontanax

That's what I like about these speakers, the flexibility. How do others hook their 2000s? Anyone ever play around with a parametric eq to tame the bass on these speakers?

presidan

Ok, i have switched from using line level to standard speaker level on my RT2000i's and so far i am not pleased with the result. I seem to get a more BBBBBBBBBBBOoooooooooooooomy bass now.
I want to know. Does using line level wire going from my receiver's front left/right preouts (NOT LFE channel) while setting my sub at off (cuz i dont have one) bypass the 2000i's xover signal ?

pdebaum

Pres,

Aye, using the line-level input bypasses the woofers crossover, whose terminals end at the woofers 5-way binding posts (lower set). Of course, the jumpers have to go, or your receiver driver amps are not going to like you; if you forget to remove them, pray the receiver has good protection shut-off circuits (most receivers do anyway), or that it can handle the load.

As for your boomy bass with speaker-level, that's most likely due to the sub's volume dial. I had the same problem going from line-level to speaker-level, the sub levels are just higher from the speaker inputs. On the sub's volume, a simple twist by about 2 hours anti-clockwise from the previous optimal line-level position did the trick for me.

Of course nothing beats a good subwoofer calibration with a sound meter, if you have the equipment. I used the AVIA DVD and couldn't believe the difference it makes. I thought I had it alright by ear; boy how wrong I was (about 12dB, believe it or not). Now, mucho quieter bass than what I was used to, but I NEVER get any boomy bass and I find actually the bass much more enjoyable; probably that "tighter" effect I read so much about but just couldn't envision (or rather hear!) after the pounding bass I endured unnoticed for many weeks.
I actually played again with the line-level inputs this week-end and after a good afternoon of tweaking and measuring decibels, I "think" I have a setting that could maybe surpass the good speaker-level setting I used to enjoy. Tough to tell though. I decided to go sub-out and chained the RT2000i subs in series, instead of using front-left and front-right pre-outs. Could be my receiver has an edge on bass managment over the sub-out rather than the pre-outs. Hmmm...., more tweaking :P

presidan

So you switched back to line level now ?
Can you still get stereo bass if you use the LFE channel ?

pdebaum

Negative. No stereo bass whatsoever with subs in series from sub-out. Not that I could feel a difference yet.

presidan

Hhhhhmmmmm
I think that i'll keep using the line level then. I appreciate the sound better that way. Tight bass and less of a low background noise with separate cables.

xfontanax

pdebaum, is that a fact that the line level input is unfiltered? According to my manual for the 2000i, the woofers are low-pass at 100 hz, but doesn't specify if the line level is direct input. My subout on my receiver is fixed at 80hz, so what i'm guessing, this hookup wouldn't be good for me. Does that sound right? I have used the receiver's main preouts in the past and got good results, now I have the separate amps for them and I'm looking into a parametric eq (to the bottom terminals) to control and shape the bass.

pdebaum

xfontanax,

I can't recall where I've seen that the line-in on the RT2000i sub is direct but I think it was from an e-mail exchange with Polk tech support. I can't guarantee it's true though, as unfortunately I've lost that e-mail. What is sure is that the speaker-level input for the woofer is definitely low-pass filtered at 100Hz. But even if the line-level input was filtered at 100Hz, it shouldn't matter with your receiver sub-out set at low-pass 80Hz. As far as I understand the concept of double-filtering, it should only be bad if you receiver's sub-out low-pass was HIGHER than your sub's, creating thus a frequency "hole" for your bass response. For example, if your receiver low-pass was at 120Hz, then your RT2000i sub's low-pass would trim everything from 100Hz to 120Hz and only keep whatever is < 100Hz, creating a hole from 100Hz to 120Hz in the bass spectrum as seen by the sub. That is why sub's manufacturers always recommend to turn the x-over dial all the way to the max in case the receiver's sub-out is already filtered. That way, no risk of getting the hole. In your case with your receiver's sub-out low pass at 80Hz, the sub's x-over has nothing to trim further from the signal since there won't be any > 100Hz signals. So you're safe.
There might be other undesirable effects from double-filtering, but that's outside my league. Maybe some signal processing guru on this board could help us out

As far as using sub-outs or main pre-outs for the RT2000i line-in, main pre-outs normally should be best because they are not low-pass filtered at the receiver (unless the subwoofer speaker is set to ON and your fronts are SMALL). You will also keep your bass stereo. But it can also depend on your receiver's quality.

But see, now I'm also getting confused. I've been swapping line-level, speaker-level and recalibrating at each step all this week and I'm going nuts as as I can't feel any difference now anymore whether I use speaker-level, line-in from sub-out or line-in from main pre-outs. The key is to recalibrate properly at each swap with the sound meter and I now believe I've done too good a job at it! Seems in the end that all 3 options are equally good when properly setup.

Anyway, good luck to your equalizing endeavors

presidan

Man, you're not the only one going nuts !!!!!
Ok, if i understand right. I have a Denon-3802, sub set to off, all speakers set to large and i'm using the main pre-outs. My question is : Will i be using the factory preset crossover of the RT2000i's woofers if i use the line level in ?
I really need to know cuz i'm pulling my hair out!

Oh yeah, i'm curious. Pdebaum, you have the marantz 6200 right ? I would like to know how you set your 2000's up when using line level. You set them to large, sub on or off, treble & bass at 0dcb and whats the subwoofer level knob set at ?

pdebaum

Argh! Presidan, you don't want any speakers set to LARGE except your mains, unless those particular speakers all have integrated subs. That's the whole point of bass management; SMALL on any channel means you want the bass (anything less than your receiver's low pass) from that channel routed to the sub-out (SUB=ON) or to the fronts (SUB=OFF). But to answer your question, about the line-in : assuming the RT2000i line-in input is unfiltered, as I suppose it is, then no worries; your receiver will do the job properly and route all the SMALL speakers filtered bass plus the LFE channel straight to your FRONT pre-outs (if SUB=OFF) or your sub-out (if SUB=ON). If the RT2000i line-in is filtered, then it all depends on your receiver low-pass value. As long as it is less than 100Hz, you're fine. If it's above, your bass will have a hole. If your Denon let you set the bass x-over, by all means set it to 100Hz or less to be safe.

With my Marantz and my RT2000i's (plus CS400i center and some old Bose cubes for the rear), here's how I am setup :
Subwoofer =OFF
Fronts = LARGE (or SMALL if you're using mains pre-outs with SUB = ON)
Center = SMALL
Surrounds = SMALL
Treble & Bass I leave at 0, but that's up to you, it shouldn't matter much.
Assuming all speakers have about equal levels for a given reference (I chose 76dB), my RT2000i subs volume knobs are set at about 9:30 o'clock. On my setup, that was the volume level that provided adequate uniformity and perfect blending with the mid-range, after calibration with the AVIA DVD and a sound-meter at 76dB reference. The bass will feel underwhelming, especially if you're used to have your innards shaken, but that's the way it's supposed to be if you want to avoid boomy bass, especially in stereo music. You can of course creep that knob up a little if you want, but no more than an hour or so. My subs get boomy after I go above 11 o'clock (using some jazz music with a very deep strong bass string to evaluate that). For HT, don't worry, the LFE channel by itself will give you strong bass (do NOT lower the LFE channel level on your receiver setup).
My Marantz bass x-over is 100Hz, so I'm safe even assuming the RT2000i line-in is filtered (and the AVIA calibration proved that I had no hole in frequency sweep tests).
That's basically it. As I said, I tried all 3 sub hookup options (pre-outs, sub-out and speaker-level) with adequate calibration performed each time, and I can't feel a difference at all.

presidan

Ok , thanks AGAIN!

How much is one of those calibraters that you use ?

pdebaum

About US $40 for an analog model, Presidan. In the US, we find those in big retail electronic stores such as RadioShack or Fry's.
Oh, and you don't want a digital model; not only are they higher priced but unnecessary for a proper speaker calibration.

gmg

I see I am not the only person who is having this problem. I also want to eliminate the polk amp from the my speaks and allow my amp to drive the bottom end. I'm not that much of an electronic nut so I'm not going to tear it apart without some good instructions. I have a B & K Ref 30 and 7250 with 200W per channel. This should be enough power to push the whole tower. I tried the line level, speaker level, cables, jumpers, Avia, and even through in some voodoo to try and overcome the boom. I'm thinking the polk amp is underpowered, thus the boom from being over driven. Any of you electronic guys have a mechanical/electrical/electronic schematic to remove the amp from the tower? Help us 2000 guys out. Thanks, Gordo

TrappedUnder Ice

Heck..my best tweek for the 2000i's...was to put some 55i's on top of em.. dang best tweek yet!

I will admit..I had no problems with my towers prior to getting the 55is'. i had to trade in some speakers and got these..

xfontanax

TrappedUnder Ice,

How did you wire the 55i's? Did you run a separate amp for these or off the same terminals? I have an extra pair of 35i's and I want to try this. Do you know what the effect is on the amp? longterm?

TrappedUnder Ice

first off..I have an older yammie..that will run "a"/"b" speakers on everything... so that is how I have them.. on on "a" and other on "b".. dont think I want to run that amp down to 4ohm.

However..I am looking at some odyssey amps that will run 4ohm..then I would prallel them and run them that way.. but for now...they are just on a/b

presidan

pdebaum (or anyone)

Ok, we need to clear a couple of things then

1-Is the RT2000i line-in input filtered or not and if it is what is it set at ?

2-Now, i dont use a sub so (SUB:OFF) which means that all the bass from the speakers set as small and LFE are redirected to the main pre-outs. So far so good. But, i cant seem to find how to set my Denon's 3802 bass x-over if my (SUB:OFF). Can i adjust it at all if (SUB:OFF). And if i cant, what is the automatic bass x-over for my main pre-outs if (SUB:OFF) ? Does anyone nkow what it is ?

Thanks

pdebaum

presidan,

1) I believe the line-in input on the RT2000 is not filtered. In the unlikely event it is, then the low-pass value would be 100Hz, same as on the speaker-level input.

2) I don't know if your Denon can let you set the xover value. What I'm pretty sure, on the other hand, is that it's not dependent on whether you have SUB=ON or SUB=OFF. The receiver's xover is a function of bass management, i.e SMALL vs LARGE for the speakers, and this is valid whether you have your bass routed to mains (sub=off) or sub-out (sub=on). If your Denon can't let you adjust the xover, then it is most likely set at a standard 80Hz, or maybe 100Hz as most consumer receivers are. Either way, you're fine, even if the RT2000i is filtered. Double-filtering becomes only potentially problematic only if your receiver's xover is greater than the sub's.

presidan

Well, i can set the x-over at either 80,100 or 120 when (SUB:ON) that i know. But i dont know if it is possible when it is OFF

OrangeToupee

presidan, I'm pretty sure that setting your speakers to small, even without employing a sub, will net you similar results. I'm guessing your receiver will default the signal sent to 80Hz when you have a speaker set to small.

Unless you have some awfully killer mains or are short on cash, I would recommend getting a sub, particularly if this a home theater setup. I'm sure you've already thought of this, and quite possibly aren't interested in my opinion, it's just that difference is so striking.

presidan

Yeah, i would like to get one of those SVS subs but right now im short on cash. Hell i cant even afford to put ketchup in my KD !!!!!!!:mad:

I'll start a nre thread on this

xfontanax

I asked the question to polk experts whether the line level inputs on the RT2000i are filtered. I here was the response:

Hello,
Thanks for contacting us. I'm not sure I completely understand your
question, however. The audio signal that leaves your receiver is either
filtered or un-filtered, if its a sub out signal, then it is filtered, if it
is a right and left pre-amp signal then it is un-filtered. If you mean does
the line level input, on the speaker, do some additional filtering, then
yes, there is a built-in low pass filter. The line level output, that comes
out of the speaker is not effected, there is no filtering on this signal.
Regards, Ken, Polk

There you go, I hope this clears some things up. I know it does for me.

presidan

Good, that clears some points up

Now, what i want to know is my pre out signal still unfiltered if i dont use a sub (sub:off) and set my mains as large ?