Furniture builders...

Grimster74

I built a new addition for Rob's world and everyone that has seen it, wants one. I've built furniture for going on 15 years know but I've only built for myself and family members. So, what I'm trying to do is get a rough idea of what to charge people for one of these. This shelf is constructed of 1x6 Red oak at roughly $20+/- a board and uses 14 boards. I also used 4x8 1/4" Oak backing at $22 a sheet and used 2 sheets. So, just in lumber alone I have $324 bones tied up in it. I roughly have 80 hours tied up in it with all the routing and preperation and assembling. What would you charge as far as labor goes. Thanks in advance.

Grimster74

Another pic

Demiurge

:eek:

That's amazing. I'd love to have something like that. My Grandfather is a carpenter, but I don't want to bother him with something like that.

How many DVDs/CDs will that awesome piece of American craftsmanship hold?

PolkThug

I don't think you'll be able to recoup your 80 hours worth of labor. If you're going to produce and sell these to other people, you're going to have to figure out how to streamline your building process to get your total hours down. Knowing what you know now about that particular unit, could you make the second unit in 2/3 or 1/2 the time? That's where I would start.

However, if you are in a "wealthy market" then I would go with 324 + (80 x 18) = $1764.

Regards,
PolkThug

phoneisbusy

That's really nice work Grimster74! No idea what to price your labour at but a good cabinetmaker does not come cheaply. I think it depends on how you view these orders. If building them is keeping you away from other projects or enjoying time off, price it like a job. If it's something you like doing for your friends, price it so you get a new toy (wood wrekin' or audio equipment) out of it.

Nice work once again.

regards

Dave

Grimster74

Demiurge, I roughly figured in the ball park of 740+/- DVD's. I currently have 410 DVD's so I figured it would give me plenty of time to grow.:D

Shizelbs

Gotta agree with Thugman. Unless you start making massive lots of these in bulk, there is just no way to realisitcally get compensated for your time.

OTH, your work looks great.

Polkersince85

Your work looks good. If your are planning on a market, shrink the size a bit (make it portable) , use less wood, set up some jigs for repetitive cuts. Plan on it being a job. You'll never know success unless you understand failure.

dkg999

Very nice work! As far as pricing, you'll have to decide if your doing this for friends and want to charge enough to cover your time and be fair. I usually take materials x 2 when invoking the friends and family discount! As far as doing this as a business, you'll need to get the labor hours down. Most woodworkers trying to do this as a business use a factor of 3.5 to 5.5 times the materials costs. Then you take that cost and compare it to what the local market will bear, then make your best guess at the sales price. Pricing is where most small business people, especially craftsmen, have trouble.

Good luck with your project, and again, very nice work that you should be proud of. I have been doing high-end finish work and antique reproductions for many years and have my own company on the side, Indian Creek Woodworks.

audiobliss

awesome looking shelving unit, grimster74....looks great!!!!

brettw22

Originally posted by PolkThug
I don't think you'll be able to recoup your 80 hours worth of labor. If you're going to produce and sell these to other people, you're going to have to figure out how to streamline your building process to get your total hours down. Knowing what you know now about that particular unit, could you make the second unit in 2/3 or 1/2 the time? That's where I would start.

However, if you are in a "wealthy market" then I would go with 324 + (80 x 18) = $1764.

Regards,
PolkThug

That piece looks great, but I dont' think you could get people to pay over $1500 for a dvd shelf......

How about thinking modular and cutting it in half?

You mentioned routing.....did you route every edge? If so, you could minimize that and save the time.

I can't tell, but it looks like there's some overhang from the center supports to the cross shelves....is that just the picture?

Early B.

Work backwards to establish your price. First question -- how much profit do you wanna make on it?

Let's say the answer is $400. Then add ALL of your costs (excluding labor) -- materials, supplies, beer, overhead, marketing, advertising, use of personal vehicle, etc. Once you add up ALL of the costs associated with the project, add $400 to that figure and there's your price. Then look at how many hours you spend on it, and you may decide that it ain't worth it. If you truly enjoy woodworking, then the time spent on it is less of an issue.

Another option is to custom make items for people with lots of disposable income. In other words, set up a website displaying pictures of your work, take orders, get one-half of your money up front, and go from there. That way, you won't be spending any of your personal money on materials and supplies, and you won't have any inventory.

Another option is to specialize, at least initially, in making one or two particular items that are less expensive, quicker and perhaps easier to make. That way, you gain efficiency and economies of scale.

VR3

If he added $00 to his work, wouldnt it stay the same?



That is AWESOME work dude! I hope I can make something like that one day! Awesome! Simply...wow!

BTW - Routing does NOT take alot of time, its first fast and easy (atleast how we did it) - and it adds ALOT to the price.

Demiurge

Sid The Carpenter :rolleyes:

VR3

Routing is easy, depending on the bit...

Edge routing - it has the metal tip that extends to the bottom of the bit, and you just bump the bit to the wood, when it stops - you continue forward. Its fast and easy. Anyone can do it.

Now the routing without the 'guide' is HARD

Demiurge

Right, but I'm assuming he did jointing too.

VR3

What does jointing have to do with routing?

Jointing trims the side of the wood to clean it up, in a straight line.

Routing is when you make a design pattern on the side....

Its completely different things.

Jointing dosnt take that long either, plaining(sp) the wood is what takes time....

Demiurge

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
What does jointing have to do with routing?

Jointing trims the side of the wood to clean it up, in a straight line.

Routing is when you make a design pattern on the side....

Its completely different things.

Jointing dosnt take that long either, plaining(sp) the wood is what takes time....

Umm...wiseass...before you go any further and come off as a know-it-all....I used to do routing, jointing, sanding & planing at our shop (work) for about 7 years along with welding, machining, metal fab, etc....as part of the products our business sells. Since then I've moved on to other facets of our company. I know all about it so there is no need for your condescension, it's rather lame....

The fact of the matter is there is more to it than just running a fricking router on a board. Jointing has everything to do with routing when you're doing cabnitrey.....I figured a know-it-all would realize that! :rolleyes:

Not to mention all of the sanding that is involved, depending on whether or not the wood that is being routed is good or if the routing bit is dulled. It's a lot more time consuming than you're making it sound.

VR3

Just re-saying what we were taught in shop in a really summarized form man...

Routing is fast, sanding is not.

Plaining is not. Jointing is fast, and it could be all cabinetry is about due to the fact it makes the ends really smooth. lol

I dont know it all, but back to what was being said above - routing is not a big deal and adds alot to the overall value.

Grimster74

Originally posted by brettw22
I can't tell, but it looks like there's some overhang from the center supports to the cross shelves....is that just the picture?

I've attached two more pics for your viewing enjoyment. There is no overhang on the shelves it just look that way do to the way I routed the edges. All on the horizontal shelves are biscuit jointed and all of the vertical shelves are dowled.

Grimster74

Hopefully this pic will show it a bit better.

amulford

Nice work. That oak can be a bear to work, at times.

As far as charging for your time, here is what I do:

1) If it is for custom work, I go on a cost plus basis. That is I take the actual cost of the materials, and then add 15% for my troubles. I then add up the labor costs, how many hours at a predetermined rate. This can be settled on beforehand in a WRITTEN and SIGNED agreement. Charge what you feel you are worth. This will vary from area to area, I charge $40 an hour for shop time, and $25 an hour for field work, but I live in a higher cost labor market.

materials = 324 + 15%(48.60) = $372.60
Labor = 80 hrs * $40/hr = $3200

2) If you plan on building a unit on a production basis, you need to set up to be able to do so. The time to construct needs to be halved, at the very least. If you have a well set up shop, you will be able to dramatically reduce you time. I think you could cut the price down to $1500 - $1800, which would be reasonable for an Heirloom quality piece of hand made furniture.


Don't sell yourself short...

madmax

Lets get this business rolling!

I second the idea of setting up a website offering generic woodworking services. Lots of pics of stuff you do. Lets say I wanted a particular size wood box for a speaker or some weird sized shelf or maybe even a case to put an amplifier in. I would order from you with no question!

As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of a set of speaker boxes right now. Although I plan on building it myself because of cost you are welcome to give me a quote. They say it will take 12 hours of work after setting up some jigs. I have the plans with all dimensions and directions. It takes two 4x8 sheets of 3/4 MDF and veneer.
http://www.uffculme.devon.sch.uk/science/Deco/

madmax

VR3

I can do the website

brettw22

Originally posted by amulford
I charge $40 an hour for shop time, and $25 an hour for field work, but I live in a higher cost labor market.

Well so much for asking you to make me an entertainment center.......;)

madmax

Originally posted by brettw22
Well so much for asking you to make me an entertainment center.......;)

At $40 an hour plus materials you would be paying $4.40 per CD for storage space if you filled up the rack. :eek:

madmax

amulford

Originally posted by brettw22
Well so much for asking you to make me an entertainment center.......;)

That's cause you're a tight ****:eek:

Seriuosly, in this area that is not bad. If you want custom work, you have to pay for it. ****, you should see how much a custom kitchen costs for average style cabinets. Think around 15,000? try double that for custom work.

$40 an hour for shop time isn't that bad. I have to cover my labor, the wear on the tools, incidental fasteners, electric, finishes, etc. etc. Do you think that all is free? It has to come from somewhere...

Grimster74

I think I'm going to have to build a larger shed/workshop. I had no idea custom woodworking had such a high price tag on it. Building furniture and making things out of wood is just something I enjoy doing but I had no idea I could make a living out of it. The problem I think I would have is just say I charged $700 for this oak media shelf in the pictures. How could someone justify paying that much for this shelf when they can go either to Wal-Mart or one of these places where you can buy unfinished furniture for half the price. I can just hear me know, there's is out of soft **** pine where as the furniture I build is out of oak. I guess I could just start working with pine.:D

PolkThug

Originally posted by Grimster74
I guess I could just start working with pine.:D

Blasphemy!!

nadams

Originally posted by PolkThug
Blasphemy!!

PolkThug

Originally posted by nadams

You could try to redeem it by putting oak trim pieces on the front.