Room layout for SDA SRS?

polksda

Not sure which forum is the most appropriate for this, but here goes:

I just recently upgraded to SDA SRS, and I'm not real happy with the depth of the soundstage, compared with my old Polks (RTA15TL). Sitting on the couch in the sweet spot, the music seems too "in my face" instead of a laid-back open "airy" soundstage. I think this is due to the room and the way I have the speakers placed, but I'm not entirely sure.

This is a dual-purpose rig, HT and 2-channel.

Equipment:

Polk SDA SRS
Denon AVR-3803, preamp outs to Crown XLS-402A driving the SRS
Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player

Here is a diagram of the current configuration, as well as one I'm thinking of trying. Please bear with me, I'm not a graphic artist; this isn't exactly to scale.

I don't know if the listening position is simply too close to the speakers, or if the fact that the speakers are offset with respect to wall position (the speakers are centered L to R within the partial wall that sticks out from the top, but out towards the listening point there is more "room" to the right of the R SDA than there is to the left of the L SDA) plays any part.

Moving the speakers back toward the wall would increase bass response (not a bad thing) and create more distance between the speakers and the sweet spot, but I don't know if the RPTV projecting 1.5 feet forward between the two SRS would interfere in any way with things.

The couch cannot be moved, and I cannot majorly reconfigure the other elements of the room (for example, I couldn't set up the speakers along the longer wall instead of the narrower one, etc.). The RPTV is tight up against the lentil of the fireplace, so there's no room to be gained there.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

F1nut

The speakers are too close together and too close to the side walls.

Dennis Gardner

Time for a new house!:D

trubluluc

I agree with Jesse the speakers are too close to the side walls and too close to each other. And the unequal distance to the wall will make the left side sound stronger than the right.
Work with the wife and show her how using the long wall for the tv and speakers will look better and sound better,
not to mention give you back your fireplace.

best of luck,

-Luc

polksda

Bleagh.

Rotating the room config 90 degrees won't work unfortunately. Dead center in the left wall is the front door to the house. The right wall has no power receptacles, and all of the satellite and antenna lines enter the house in the upper left corner where the sub sits. The strip along the right side of the room is the main traffic lane (door at bottom leads to kitchen and area at top right is hallway leading to bedrooms, etc.

This is the biggest room in the house too.

Assuming that the option I gave above is a complete dud as far as any improvements, would the config below result in any gain? It increases the distance between the two speakers by a foot, and makes the left and right wall clearance a little more even.

I'm trying to work with what I've got here, and it ain't much.

Which is more critical, the distance between the two speakers or the space to the outside of the speakers to the walls?

[The couch cannot move backward, although it can move side to side somewhat. There are more items in the room, specifically behind the couch; I only included what I thought were relevent details in the diagram(s)]



Or there's this which makes the side wall clearance issue worse (but even), and maximizes the distance between the two speakers:

F1nut

Out of the choices I think take 2 might work the best. Do you not have a basement?

polksda

3-bedroom ranch, slab construction (this is the low-rent side of town).

F1nut

At least you have a fireplace (sort of), more than a lot of folks can say.

reeltrouble1

I agree with number 2, Polk's recommended placement is 3 ft from sidewalls so the more you can move toward that goal the better. But it is only a recommendation.

I would at least try moving them back towards the wall a bit, I understand your concern about the TV being in the middle of stage. But at least worth a try.

If I had to choose between the distance the speakers are apart and the distance from the sidewalls I would go for distance from the sidewall. I faced this scenario with my 2 ch and the 1C's and found it worked best for me this way.

Hey, you still have those awesome speakers, my wife actually liked the looks of the SRS over the RTi I was using.

RT1

polksda

Well, dip me in **** and call me stinky.

I tried Config 2, and while it helped somewhat, the improvement was marginal.

On a whim, I figured I'd try swapping out the outboard 2-channel amp I had running the SRS, with some others I had lying around, to see if that made a difference.

Originally:

Crown XLS-402A (Pro Audio). 260WPC @ 8 Ohms, 400 WPC @ 4 Ohms.

Swap #1:

QSC RMX-2450 (Pro Audio). 500WPC @ 8 Ohms, 750 WPC @ 4 Ohms

After I let it warm up for a while, there was a bit more punch to it, and the bottom end was a bit more solid. The soundstage was still lacking though, compared to what I wanted and expected, and the sound was "dry" like with the Crown.

Swap #2:

A beat-up old Carver M-1.0t I had in the closet. (200WPC @ 8 Ohms, ??? @ 4 Ohms).

Yikes! Even without any warm-up, the soundstage is much more open, and the vocals have that lushness I was missing. MUCH better!

Living proof that there are more to amps than just number of watts.

Doing some reading online, it appears that this particular model gets regularly slammed as one of Carver's poorer efforts.

What amplifiers would you recommend looking for to run the SRS, say in the under $500 (used) category?

Thanks.

Dennis Gardner

Carver TFM 25, 35, or 45 would fill the bill and run you close to the amount you are looking for if purchased right.

There have been alot of Carver\Polk SDA combos throughout the years here on the forum.

2-tall

I have been using aTFM 24 and have had great results.I also have peoblems with spacing from walls as you do.

F1nut

Yet more proof that pro amps are crappola for home use.

Try a Rotel RB990BX rated 200 wpc @ 8ohms, something more at 4 and well within your price range.

polksda

Just a quick followup:

I tried Room Config #2 for a while, and it didn't do a lot for me, as well as looking funky.

A few nights ago I set up the SRS as shown in Config #3 just to see how it would compare. I like this a bit better than either of the two previous configurations. Better bass response, and a bit more impact to the music overall. I think the added distance from the speakers is adding something. This positioning also has the aesthetic effect of making the room appear a bit more spacious...

PolkWannabie

Having anything between the two speaks that's at the same distance or closer then the speakers themselves will kill the SDA.

scottnbnj

i don't know diddly about how sda's behave, but, if the tonal balance or image is skewed by sidewalls, can treating the walls help?

)

scottnbnj

oh yeah, something along the lines of a coat rack will work well for quick and dirty experimentation.

)

Tour2ma

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Having anything between the two speaks that's at the same distance or closer then the speakers themselves will kill the SDA.

Kill? Dent, maybe, but not kill, since all drivers still have a clear path to your ears... In general sidewalls have a much greater impact in my experience.

An extreme case, e.g., SDA's immediately flanking a large entertainment center and recessed behind its front, would disrupt the SDA soundfield. In effect though it would be like partial walls to the inside of your speakers. But that set up would muck up the imaging of any speaker pair. Bringing the SRS's out to even with the front of the offending "furniture" and/ or splitting them out a bit farther would do the trick.

p-sda,
Carver and Polk have always had a synergy. As a cheap approach to upping the wattage to your SRS's, consider a second 1.0 in the $200's on da bay. You can safely, horizontally bi-amp the SRS's. Unfortunately, vertically bi-amping is out, due to the common ground requirement.

One question... if on carpet, are your SRS's spiked?

Brianomatic

polksda

I also have the SRS SDA speakers and the Denon 3803 receiver. I had the SRS SDAs powered by my Dynaco 416 power amplifier. But Friday I hooked them up to my 3803. Playing a CD from my Denon 1600 I had the following configuration:

Denon 3803 set to PURE DIRECT.

Denon 1600 set to AUDIO ONLY.

With this setup I was receiving an optical digital signal from the 1600 fed to the 3803 using the Pure Direct setting. In this setting of the 3803, the tone control and video circuitry is bypassed.

All I can say is Wow! The sound stage opened right up with cystal clear clarity.

Next, I am going to try the 3803 in this configuration using the pre-outs to my Dynaco 416 to feed the SRS SDAs.

After that, I am going to try bi-amping the SRS SDAs.

Brian

polksda

Oh yes, I most definitely use the Pure Direct setting when listening to audio.

I'm quite happy at the moment with the way things are sounding. Is it perfect? No. But outside of moving to a new house, I think I've done what I can with the room...