Power vs Quality

madmax

I used to run really high power stuff for a long time. Neighbors moved away because of it. (Well they could have said something BEFORE selling their house but I didn't care for them anyway). Anyway, after I heard tubes I immediately became addicted and the high power stuff just sat there and eventually most went into the closet. Well, last night after listening to some 5 watt stuff a mood came over me and I pulled out one of the 1200 watt carvers and put it in place of the little T amp I've been playing with.

What I heard.

Upon powering up the amp I heard a vey slight rushing sound. Only at the speakers, not in my listening position. I also heard a very slight high frequency noise at the listening position. Maybe around 15 Khz or so. It was not really annoying but was there. I set the volume controls low and started playing some Keb Mo. It seemed as though some sounds were missing and the ones that were there sounded a little choppy. I kept listening though. After about a half hour or so I was convinced why I had switched to the tubes. The reproduction just wasn't there like with the tubes.

Next I started cranking up the volume. At first it was still choppy sounding but louder. After going through another disc I became numb to some of the poor sounds. They went away just like magic. My guess is I got the volume high enough and became used to the sound. At this point I could turn the amp down and it sounded fine at lower volumes. It took a little while but I guess this became my new reference. From there it got VERY exciting.

I popped in some Santana and let the volume go. Loud and powerful. Then I put the Beatles White album (on CD) in and had the volume very high. I saw the peak lights flash a few times. I was sitting on the edge of my seat and the excitement was taking over. Ah yes, the feel of true power. True satisfaction. I even had thoughts of hooking up the four 18" subs that were sitting there but didn't have the time or patience. I guess the new neighbors lucked out.

Conclusion:
I need to set my system up so I can easily switch between amps without any loss of fidelity from the tube amps. For true listening I am VERY happy with the tubes. For an unbelievable power trip every now and then you need lots of power. I guess there is a time and place for both.

madmax

F1nut

Somebody is having fun!

BlueMDPicker

I've had very similar experiences of late. I ran a Counterpoint SA-100 for nearly fifteen years before losing the power transformer in it. I opted to have it modded to an NP-100 by its designer, Michael Elliot. So, off it went to California last August. About two weeks ago, I grew tired of waiting for a "production run" to commence on the NP100's and cancelled the upgrade, opting instead for a power supply rebuild (Plitron toroidal transformer and the four main filter caps upgraded to Nichicon Super Through KG electrolytics.)

In the mean time, I acquired a few other amps to play with - the best being a PS Audio Delta 200 and a used Counterpoint SA-100. Of the two, the PS Audio was the more dynamic and musical in my system. Logically, I assumed my original SA-100 would still be playing second fiddle to the Delta 200 when I got it back. Wrong assumption.

Combined with the rest of my gear lineup, the SA-100 with upgraded power supply has deeper, more powerful bass, sounds more musical, is more dynamic, is just more of everything that music needs to be exciting and natural-sounding. Even though I don't "need" the other SA-100 upgraded, this is such an astonishing transformation that I'm seriously considering it.

Then there's the Dynaco gear I just got......

reeltrouble1

I like the idea of the two amps yet seperate, sort of like dating twins who are opposites. Which of your speakers were you using Max?

I have also been considering tubes on top with ss on the bottom in a bi-amp config, ever tried it?

RT1

You guys have to much gear, send me some to keep warm for you!!

organ

Very well written, Madmax! I heard the exact same things when I was playing around with my amps a few weeks back. My SS amp sounded choppy (esp in the highs and mids) and it seems some information was missing. The most annoying thing was the 2d presentation. Tubes just makes the room feel 'alive'. With the lights out, there's this 'presence' about the sound.

You're thinking about getting some high eff speakers right? This will help BIG time. My speakers sound more dynamic with my tube amp than SS. The only part where SS is more dynamic is deep bass. But I have my PSW650 to take care of that.

Maurice

madmax

I'm using the SDA-SRS. I was thinking about a pair of fostex drivers.

Last night I played the LSi7's with the big amp. Mated VERY well! Those '7's sound really big and handle everything well with massive power. The more I play with the 7's the more I think they are about the best currently produced polk speakers.

The problem with biamping the tubes/SS and the SDA-SRS is that the glorious midrange and bass are one connector and treble is the other. If it were made in such a way as having bass on one and midrange/treble on the other then I would be up for it.

madmax

dkg999

I've never had much fascination with tube stuff until about 6 months ago. I traded a refurb. of two old Bogen tube amps I had salvaged out of a theater in a small IA town, and a refurb. of a pair of ESS AMT 1 speakers I had for some interior trim work on a house. This combination is very, very sweet! Other than the 15 min. it takes the amps to warm up, nothing bad to say at all about this set-up. I had a chance to power some Maggie MMG's with these amps recently, and compare them to my normal choice of amps which is a pair of bridged Phase Linear 400B's. It was amazing, the old Bogen's won hands down. Plus, at around 65 lbs each, you get your excersize when you move the Bogens around! Got to love an amp. with a cast iron base!