Is Timbre Matching Overrated???

Early B.

I noticed that some of the Polk Forum veterans have HT systems that are not timbre matched. Just wanted to get some feedback on how important that is, how much of it is marketing hype, and how you go about selecting new speakers to ensure their aren't any noticeable incompatibilities.

Frank Z

It's only important if you are trying to achieve a seamless surround sound system that offers the best possible performance for both movies and music. Other than that, naw it ain't important at all.;)

dorokusai

I think it's more important when using non-Polk speakers, as if that wasn't a no-brainer. The anti-comment to that would be ppl running unlike brands and loving it....but I think you'll find they run different brand center channels than otherwise.

I personally find Polk has a fairly similar sound, and can be mismatched, yet still have a fairly seamless integration. Obviously there would be some mates that do not work, LSi vs R perhaps, but that would just be silly anyhow.

Early B.

I ought to make a minor clarification -- I'm mostly referring to timbre matching for movies. I can imagine that for music you'd want a seamless sound. And obviously a seamless surround system for HT is considered ideal. But, as doro said, there are those who don't have matching speakers and love their systems. So what's the big deal about timbre matching? Are these people missing something? Is timbre matching more important for music than movies?

MacLeod

In car audio it doesnt seem to matter as much.

Most people run brand and type of subs than their mids/highs and there are quite a few running different tweets, mids, midbasses and subs with 4 different brands and having good luck.

Of course this is 99% audio and is probably different from HT.

TheReaper

With HT it makes a differance when things go across the front or around the room.

There is a scene in Mission To Mars (I think that's the movie), where the guy is talking and it rotates around the whole room.

MacLeod

Yeah, that makes sense. Not as important when youve only got 2 channels.

dorokusai

Early - I understand where you are coming from, and I think for the majority no, it doesn't matter. I demo more and more as time goes on, and my opinion has reflected as such, much to my dismay, haha.

I think the more drastic the difference in design, the more noticeable....again stating the obvious. A Martin Logan center channel, to Polk Mon10 L&R's is going to sound real freaking odd....you know what I mean? Silk dome to silk dome....you would be hard pressed as an average listener.

MacLeod makes a good point. CA wouldn't exhibit much of an obvious effect, as it would in HT. The center stage in a vehicle is so much more compressed.

The bigger the application, the more important it is IMO.

Dennis Gardner

Its funny that it seems to be a matter of what is more convenient for your room than whether they are exact matches. If this weren't the case we would use exactly the same across the front at least, but we all know that finding room for a tower or large bookshelf usually gives way to a center that somewhat matches the mains.

You have to agree that most buy what is offered or designed by the company.

It does matter more in music or you would mix and match mains, and who does that?

Frank Z

The difference in sound quality between a timbre matched system and a system comprised of unmatched speakers is purely subjective. Everyone is going to have a different opinion of what sounds acceptable and what doesn't. To my ears it makes a big difference in my my HT with my movies or my music. That's not to say that someone else's system doesn't sound just as good or better to them.

It's all about your ears, your taste, your preferences, and of course your budget has to figure into the picture as well.

Once again the bottom lines is pretty simple, if you like what you're hearing then the system is perfect. Matched speakers or not, $100 DVD player or a $75K TT, it makes no difference. Audition, audition, audition, and after that audition some more.

dorokusai

A hardcore, very well mixed, 5.1 SACD/DVD-A should ideally be 100% timbre matched....how often is that the case? If any variable exists in surround sound, it's the surround choices....not so much the front stage at all.

I see more garbage in the back than I do in the front. Does it matter? Not really, due to content, it's effects not dialogue.

Early B.

I guess what Frank just said kinds sums it up. That's cool. it answers my question.

I'm on the verge of mixing and matching speakers and just didn't want to create any unnecessary problems. I'll continue to experiment and report on my findings.

okiepolkie

Are you trying to match your new Norhs? If so, then just buy another set of the bookshelves to use as a dual center channel. I did this for a while with Rt1000's as fronts and RT5's as dual centers. I wish I could afford TWO more LSi7's right now to have them as duals with my LSi7 L/R fronts.

Early B.

Are you trying to match your new Norhs?

Nope.

mantis

I'm on the verge of mixing and matching speakers and just didn't want to create any unnecessary problems. I'll continue to experiment and report on my findings.

Why??

Just about every speaker company on the planet has matching speakers. Why not use matching speakers?

Early B.

Mantis -- I chose a pair of used floor standing speakers that I wanted, but the matching center channel is much too large for my application (i.e., it won't fit in my audio cabinet). Besides, I couldn't find it on the Internet at a decent price anyway. So I looked for an alternative center channel. Another reason is because I'm buying stuff on the used market and I'm getting them in pieces. You get lots more for your money, so I'm going for a higher quality sound. I don't have the disposable income to purchase an entire speaker system at one time. It would be nice, though. I started with changing out the surrounds (not timbre matched) a couple of months ago and got impressive results, so I decided to keep going.

jmierzur

Originally posted by Frank Z
To my ears it makes a big difference in my my HT with my movies or my music.

That is my opinion as well. And as Frank said, neither approach is right or wrong.

madmax

Originally posted by MacLeod
In car audio it doesnt seem to matter as much.

Most people run brand and type of subs than their mids/highs and there are quite a few running different tweets, mids, midbasses and subs with 4 different brands and having good luck.

Of course this is 99% audio and is probably different from HT.

Most car audio systems are timbre matched but you have to think of it a little differently. So the midrange and tweeters are often different brands in each location but normally each location has the same or close drivers. What is matched is each channel, not necessarily each driver of each channel.
madmax

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Early B.
Mantis -- I chose a pair of used floor standing speakers that I wanted, but the matching center channel is much too large for my application (i.e., it won't fit in my audio cabinet).

I started with changing out the surrounds (not timbre matched) a couple of months ago and got impressive results, so I decided to keep going.

Hi Early,

I would think that a lot depends on the spacing of your front speaker array. It stands to reason that if your speakers are narrowly spaced, say on either side of a TV, with a center channel on top, that the main channel sound fields are going to overlap and help disguise differences in timbre of the center.

Conversely in a larger room, with main speakers widely spaced to say clear a front projection screen with the centers below, above or both, then it would matter quite a bit. It would be readily apparent in an action movie where sounds are panning that the pitch of that racing car is changing as it moves right to left.

An other thing to consider is that timbre matching matters more if the sound is panning between speakers than if it is stationary. So its possible that it may be more of a concern for movies where the sound is constantly moving versus a musical presentation where hopefully the focus is generally centered.

Finally, it makes more of a difference on the front speaker array than on the surrounds simply because our hearing is more acute up front.

Larry

Early B.

New fronts and center channel arrive Friday (Rega Naos and Ascend Acoustics CMT-340C). I'll post my thoughts on their timbre matching.

PolkFreak

Hi, I think that matching speakers matters a lot in any audio system. 2CH or 5.1. Lets just say for instance that someone had a 2CH system and they had two totally different speakers. One speaker had a 1" inch dome with an 8 inch driver. The other speaker had a 1\2" inch dome with a 6.5 driver. And factor in that
both speakers were from 2 different company's. Would that sound good? HECK NO! It is best to just use speakers of the same brand with THE SAME size drivers and tweeters. 2CH or 5.1 it is essential for the most realistic seamless sound stage. All of the speakers in my 5.1 system are Polk and have 1" inch domes and 6.5" inch drivers. That is the way it should be IMO.

dorokusai

Why on earth would someone have a 2CH rig with two different speakers? C'mon now.

Whadyasay

Then again, you also have to factor in room acoustics, and that it is very difficult for a listening area to be ideally suited for placement of both front AND rear speakers. Even if you have the exact same speakers all the way 'round, considering that most surround speakers will be mounted higher and closer to a wall/corner than the fronts, you're looking at all kinds of 'timbre' issues despite identical drivers. Right now, I'm using a pair of RT25i's as the surrounds with my LSi9 Fronts and LSiC Center, and they do just fine, despite having different tweeters and even impedance. Even with some of my SACD's that have specific musical information coming from the surrounds, they are hardly ever the same as what's coming from the fronts. I was going to go with a pair of LSi7's (I still might somewhere down the road), but for my space and where they would go, the LSi7s are just too large As far as DVD movies, the RT25's do just fine for those, too.

that said, if I could find a way of fitting the LSi7s, they would have been my first choice as surround speakers.

Early B.

New fronts and center channel arrive Friday (Rega Naos and Ascend Acoustics CMT-340C). I'll post my thoughts on their timbre matching.

Forgot to post my thoughts, so here they are...

Screw timbre matching!

Now that I got that off my chest, the aforementioned speaker combination is fantastic, IMO. Sounds seamless enough to me. No complaints at all.

So go ahead, Polkies, and mix & match speakers 'til your heart's content. Zap 'em with an SPL meter and you're good to go.

TroyD

For me, HT is just a diversion so timbre matching isn't something I lose a lot of sleep over. I have a LSiC and 2.3tl's up front and it works just fine for me.

BDT

PolkFreak

dorokusai,
I was only pointing out that mixing speakers just might not sound right. Nobody would have two different speakers on a 2CH
system. It was just an easy way to point out how much different the sound could be buy mixing speakers. Ya , I know that things are a bit different when your talking about just having different rears on a surround setup. I have heard some other people say that if you can't totally match your main speakers with the rears you should at least match the tweeters.
I thought that it might be more important to match the size of the
midrange/bass driver since midrange is mostly what we hear. I did at one time have have my LSI9's hooked up as mains to a surround system with the R15 speakers as rears. The R15's had a different type and size tweeter of course, but they sounded pretty good with the LSi9's. At least they had the same size midrange/bass driver as the LSi9's. Anyway, that made me wonder about the "at least match the tweeters" statement that I heard from other people. I guess to a point I could agree with having slightly different speakers in a surround setup.

F1nut

Timbre matching is very important. It never looks good when you mix white oak with red oak. Although they may appear close, they are totally different. The same goes for many others like American walnut and English walnut.

danger boy

good point Jessie


i hate when that happens.. someone mixing different woods like that.

shame on them!

cfrizz

ROFLMAO!!!:D

Originally posted by F1nut
Timbre matching is very important. It never looks good when you mix white oak with red oak. Although they may appear close, they are totally different. The same goes for many others like American walnut and English walnut.

dorokusai

Polk Freak - I understand.

PolkFreak

F1-NUT, I'm happy you see that I am an American walnut.