Source vs Speakers: TAS roundtable

LuSh

It was suppose to be a "what components matter most" roundtable. But when The Absolute Sound invited Ivor Tiefenbrun (founder of Linn) and Dave Wilson of Wilson Audio speakers, amplifiers were quickly pushed aside.

Anybody that has been involved in this debate should pickup the issue on this roundtable alone. Ivor jokes about having to take medication throughout the whole debate because of the stuff he's hearing from Dave Wilson. VERY FUNNY. Most of the TAS writers chickened out and said balance, balance, balance, but the idea was to pick an area and stick with it. Ivor and Dave do.

To my amazement REG kept his trap shut, even though he has long said he buy better speakers before a better source for many years.

steveinaz

There is no debate in my mind. Speakers have always had the most influence on the "sound" of your system; nothing changes the character of your sound more---if they can't figure that one out, they all need hearing exams.

I would tell them to try this test:
Setup an awesome system with great speakers. Now put a $49 sony walkman in the chain as your source....

NOW

Using the same system with a high-end cd player, put some $49 speakers in the chain...

Which one do you think will have the most significant change in sound?

I would rate them like this (foregoing the listening room):

1. Speakers
2. Source
3. Preamp
4. Power amp
5. Cables

reeltrouble1

Great Thread

It is fundamental to accept the gear as a whole system, therebye, applying systems thinking to determine the root cause of poor performance. The problems encountered are systemic to the whole, changing one systemic element affects the entire process as each part is dependent upon another. If you were to put a great performer in any part of bad process (system), it is the overall process that will win out, not the individual performing element.

As the human element of the system our job is to remove as many barriers as possible or practical to allow the system to perform effectively. Although it is quite possible construct an effective system which will reproduce pleasing sound the rubber meets the road issue is how effeciently we are able to do in terms of time and cost.

Finally, I would add that the software these systems utilize to reproduce pleasing tones is an important element which cannot be overlooked. Steve did mention forgoing the actual listening environment which can be done, but is a part of the system capable of seriously impeding performance, even if all of the other elements of the system are of the highest quality.

RT1

MacLeod

I agree with Steve that speakers are the most important.

LuSh

I couldn't disagree with you more Steve. It would DRIVE ME INSANE to have speakers hooked up to a CD walkman. your only as good as the data being feed upsteam.

I've heard quite a few good systems that used $2-3k speakers, but I've also heard terrible ones. I've never heard a system using a high end source that didn't sound good. Even using modest priced speakers in the $500-$600 can be stunning when used with high end electronics.

steveinaz

Originally posted by LuSh
I couldn't disagree with you more Steve. It would DRIVE ME INSANE to have speakers hooked up to a CD walkman. your only as good as the data being feed upsteam.

I've run a walkman thru my patio system on many occasions, it's not nearly as bad as replacing the Advent speakers with the $49 Radio Shack 2-ways...see my point....and there's only a $20 difference in the speakers...

Sure, a $250 CD Player is gonna have a hard time keeping up with a $1000 player, BUT, the differences will be subtle by comparison. Now, try comparing $250 speakers with a $1000 pr of speakers and see if ANYTHING in that comparison is subtle.

Try my above experiment at home. You'd be surprised how good a walkman sounds thru a high-end system; can you tell a difference?, sure you can...but it ain't that easy. I guarantee if someone switches your speakers out--you'll know in a second...


I absolutely agree with you that $500 speakers can sound stunning, hell I can think of $69 speakers that sound great (the Advents on my patio)---but that wasn't the question. The question was, which has more influence, source or speakers.

LuSh

The question was which was the most important. For sure speakers will have the biggest sonic impact, but it works both ways both good and bad. CD players usually only add stuff when you move up, rarely does a $3k CDP give up something or anything to a $1k CDP. It's all a plus, because its more accurate.

That's not true for speakers, a $3k set might be better, but it also might have tradeoffs. There aren't as many as you move up the chain with CDP's and preamps for that matter. A better source is usually better at everything, not the case in speakers. You might have to double your budget and take a hit in lower frequency response in order to make a vocal sound perfect, or the stroke of a piano key sound pitch perfect.

People want instant change when they hear something. If you listen to a source for more then 1hr even 4hrs you'll see huge differences. Things are being added not substituded.