2 channel or 5.1?

dmalino

Originally posted by dorokusai
think of the people who hate Sony, yet the very CD/DVD player they listen to may in fact run a Sony transport. Sony is a heavy hitter in the transport biz, regardless of manufacturer, wake up America.[/B]

Plus they make a hell of a nice TV.
A lot of the Sony transports are manufactured by LiteOn.

audiobliss

I don't have a problem with Sony CD/DVD players, video equipment, game consoles, etc....

dorokusai

Originally posted by dmalino
A lot of the Sony transports are manufactured by LiteOn.

It certainly wouldn't be new for companies to outsource, but could you get some verification on that statement? I'm just wondering for my own notes.

keith allen

Man get those LSi's from E.B.,$300 thats a friggin steal...if ya really cant afford seperates right now,and I know that feelin Im just getting into them myself...you can get some real good carver stuff off ebay,dont care what anyone says...their amps are great,got mine for$256 delivered...225wpc!Got a carver preamp too,$197 delivered,it broke after a month (imagine that) $235 for repair and upgrade...it sounds fantastic,but I didnt make out all that well on it,got about $450 tied up in it now when you include oneway shipping for the repair and mods...retail was $700 new....sooo,what Im saying you can get into better stuff used,but I tell ya,denon,and nad both make 2 channel receivers that will run the 4ohm lsi's.I would recommend the denon dra 685,Im tellin ya this thing sounds great,it does a fantastic job with 4ohm speakers (doesnt melt down) and you can pick one up for $250 to $300 used,next get ya a powered sub,make sure its got speaker level inputs and outputs,the denon doesnt have sub out.I run my tv with my 2 channel system,and Im more than pleased,the sub really makes it on the movies,but my music sounds ohhh sooo goood!

keith allen

The onkyo tx 8511,very good receiver,and ya can now get one for around $250,its very powerfull and it claims to handle 4ohm speakers,but it doesnt do it very well...gets way to hot!Also it has a button on the back to switch from 8 to 4 ohm loads,ya dont want that.I you are going to end up with 8 ohm speakers Id say go for the onkyo,at 250 new thats a good deal,if ya go with 4ohm speakers,find a used denon dra 685 no switch on the back.I own both these receivers right now,so I have a lil knowledge about them

MacLeod

Well, I never buy used and really dont like to buy stuff online.

Im not going to be using this enough to warrant spending too much scratch on it. Plus most of my spare cash goes into my truck system. The Monitor 60 with either an Onkyo or Sony 5.1 or better receiver for $250 would be just about right for my needs.

Thanks for all the help guys. Info was invaluable!

F1nut

Originally posted by MacLeod
Well, I never buy used and really dont like to buy stuff online.

You're selling yourself short. There are so many good deals on used gear it's not funny. You can get a lot more (better) gear for the money. A good place to shop is Audiogon, ePay sucks.

sowen010599

Originally posted by jcaut
Think of it this way: If the max power comsumption at the AC line cord is 200 watts, then the maximum possible output would be 100 watts per channel, both channels driven, IF the amp operated at 100% efficiency, which doesn't happen. I'm not sure, but I think 60%-70% is about the best you do.

Huh? Do what? Current draw has NOTHING to do AT ALL with output. That little "200 watt" current draw on the back means squat. The stamp on the back of the unit is the maximum number of watts drawn from your 120v outlet. It has nothing really to do with the amount of watts your receiver puts out. Although, a receiver with a low power requirement, but a high output, is somewhat suspect (such as this Sony).

It's only there to satisfy UL requirements. It simply states that your receiver can draw up to 200 watts (1.7 amps) of power from your 120v outlet.

A funny thing though, some older Pioneer 2 channel 100 watt per. receivers are stamped at 500 watts max.

I would say, with a 200w max current draw, 'bout 40 watts per. would be tops before clipping at a gazillion THD.

sowen010599

I can't speak for home audio/video, but all Sony computer CD/DVD EVERYTHING is made by LiteOn. Burners, readers, etc. All of it.

chenj16

Originally posted by sowen010599
I would say, with a 200w max current draw, 'bout 40 watts per. would be tops before clipping at a gazillion THD.

this is reasonable

dorokusai

Originally posted by sowen010599
I can't speak for home audio/video, but all Sony computer CD/DVD EVERYTHING is made by LiteOn. Burners, readers, etc. All of it.

That's great. It doesn't really matter, but when I see some real proof of that is when it will be fact for me.

Sami

Originally posted by sowen010599
I would say, with a 200w max current draw, 'bout 40 watts per. would be tops before clipping at a gazillion THD.

You seem to be supporting his view actually. He said "possible maximum output".

sowen010599

I never really went looking for proof. When you hold them both your hand, the Sony and the LiteOn, and they are friggin identical, it's more than obvious. You can even flash a Sony with LiteOn firmware. But, here ya go...

http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage/20041102/dvd_burners-09.html

"The Sony DRU-710A burner is based on the Lite-On SOHW-1633S. In fact, Lite-On now makes all the burners for the Japanese giant."

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=11459

"Lite-On is expected to OEM produce more optical disc drives (ODDs) for Sony, which will focus more on producing blue-ray drives, according to Taiwan ODD makers.

The Japanese company plans to phase out its production of own brand ODDs and contract more of the production to Lite-On IT, the makers stated. In addition, Sony also OEM manufactures ODDs for other makers, and these orders will be transferred to Lite-On IT, the makers noted. "


There's more if you hit up Google.

dorokusai

Thanks Sowen, I appreciate you actually taking the time to explain and prove your statement. That's what seperates the men from the boys IMO.

Liteon is a good company, as I've used their computer gear for quite some time.

sowen010599

Well, thank ye.

Lite-On is, well, marginal. Toshiba, Plextor, Phillips, etc etc etc whip the Sony's butt. And I really hate the vibration dampers on the Sony/Lite-On. The motor has these loose ball bearings in it. It makes this weird scratching sound. Kinda like a cup of rocks.

Keep in mind I am talking about the computer drives.

Honestly? I would be a little disappointed if I bought a Sony DVD player with a Lite-On transport. Their computer drives are crap! Half the time, the burners wont even work out of the box. And when they do, you have to flash them with a hacked flash because they wont run at there advertised speed. Almost all of the 52x burners released this year would only burn at 40x out of the box. WTF is up with that?

dorokusai

I'm not sure, but I've used a bunch of Liteon drives with no major issues. The only thing that I do not like is the noise level of the CD-RW drives...they are real loud compared to the DVD drives they offer. The DVD's are real quiet.

No driver issues here, maybe it was a bad million drives that week, haha.

MacLeod

Originally posted by sowen010599
I would say, with a 200w max current draw, 'bout 40 watts per. would be tops before clipping at a gazillion THD.

Its definitely more than 40 watts. Ive been into audio long enough to know that the output this thing is capable of is way passed 40 watts.

I still believe it puts out its rated 100x2. The amp is big enough and in car audio at least, even the cheap-o amps make their rated power at least! I dont see why this would be any different.

audiobliss

Well, lemme remind you: car audio is very different from home audio. I'm sure several people here would be willing to bet a lot that your Sony does NOT put out 100x2 under any circumstances. Most do not put out what they're rated out; my $800 Yamaha, either.

marker

Originally posted by keith allen
The onkyo tx 8511,very good receiver,and ya can now get one for around $250,its very powerfull and it claims to handle 4ohm speakers,but it doesnt do it very well...gets way to hot!Also it has a button on the back to switch from 8 to 4 ohm loads,ya dont want that.I you are going to end up with 8 ohm speakers Id say go for the onkyo,at 250 new thats a good deal,if ya go with 4ohm speakers,find a used denon dra 685 no switch on the back.I own both these receivers right now,so I have a lil knowledge about them

Bottom line it for me Keith, which one just flat out sounds better in your opinion, the Onkyo 8511 or the Denon 685. I wanted the Denon, but I just bought the Onkyo brand new from CC for just $99 brand new in box. I figured that if the Denon is better, but probably not so much so as to justify the cost difference.

Only thing I dislike about the 8511 is the stupid spring clips for speaker wire instead of 5 way binding posts. A sub out would have been nice too.

I also have the little Onkyo MC35 TECH mini system, and the little mini-receiver has a sub out and 5 way binding posts, but their top of the line 2 channel stereo receiver doesn't? That just doesn't make any sense to me.

dorokusai

Audiobliss - It's rated to output that figure, BUT at a high distortion level. There are other factors that create this number, and the real number, but I'm trying to be simple.

You have to remember AB, that every manufacturer uses it's own testing procedure and will make everything look as pretty as possible. All manufacturers have validated figures from their lab, it's required, but it's THEIR lab.

Independent testing of that same 100x2 would most likely reveal 100x2 at an unbearable, and very audible distortion level.

sowen010599

Yeah, or 100x2 for one hundred thousand million billionth of a second, off a cliff, with a stiff tail wind, a ton of lead, and only with a full moon.

I'd even go so far as to say 20x2 would be more fair with a clean output.

Originally posted by MacLeod
Its definitely more than 40 watts. Ive been into audio long enough to know that the output this thing is capable of is way passed 40 watts.

Remember, loud means NOTHING. With speakers that are even "moderately efficient", ONE WATT is WAY MORE than you will use for normal listening. Seems like I remember someone on here talking about a 5 or 10 watt amp (Russ maybe?). Almost everybody was like "What the heck for??". What nobody thought of was that a set of efficient speakers will go >100db with only 5 friggin watts.

There was a list going around here a while back with actual tests of several different receivers from different companies. All of the Sony "100 watt per" units chimed in at something like 20-30 watts.

audiobliss

...the truth rears it's ugly head.....

dorokusai

When you are over 90db x 1w, you are "very efficient".

10wTube on a Klipsch will almost blow your head off...bass won't be extraordinary, but it sure will sing like a banshee in heat on a Sunday night.

Sowen - You mean the S&V test? Oh yea, place your bets now folks, what a great power table that is....get educated if that's your reference.

Audiobliss - What are you referring to?

audiobliss

just the general idea in Sowen's post that manufacturer's claims aren't quite accurate

sowen010599

Not my reference, I don't even remember who made the thing. I just seem to remember seeing it around here.

Not all manufacturers are that misleading. Some are just waaaaaay out there. Like this Sony. Every worth a crap 100x2 amp I have ever seen has at least 400 watts of current draw from a 120v outlet. That Sony's not pulling its power from thin air. So it's either some new magic amplifier technology or BS.

dorokusai

Well, it seems as though Sony is the flavor of the month, so here we go, nothing new. Man, you Sony bashers should really start to read more, and hate less.

On a personal note: Just because I own a couple Sony pieces doesn't mean I'm a slave. I own and have owned way more other gear than Sony. I just cannot stand senseless bashing of gear.

Everything said in relation to Sony can be directly turned on the other major manufacturers, what don't you understand?

Pioneer all of sudden has become the benchmark of power and is perfect for you?

JVC is now the crusader of honest distortion and is perfect for you?

HK while honest in power ratings is now the iceburg of confidence and is perfect for you?

Wake up.

It's all subjective and basically a joke when you start comparing manufacturer data. If you think manufacturer data is the end all of information, then you have so so much farther to go as an enthusiast.

One review does not create an opinion, and if it does for you....then you should just drop out of this whole genre now.

I chose my gear based on reviews, ideas, recommendations, whims, thoughts...all kinds of things. I don't recall a single defining moment where I said, hey, the distortion level on that amplifier is pretty high at 1Kx1W...perhaps I should look elsewhere.

Get your ears on, not your wallet.

Anyone who wants to stop by and hear some high level Sony ES distortion, and terrible power ratings w/ clipping and breaker pops....your always welcome in my home....and I bet you'll leave with your tail between your legs. Bring your best material, I'm not worried about a damn thing.

Thanks for the thread, I'm outta here.

sowen010599

Whoa there dude. Geezus! Did I strike a nerve or what??

First off, I am not a "Sony hater". Sony's low end consumer stuff has the same issues as Yamaha, Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, etc. They are ALL over-rater power wise. But if you get into their higher end stuff like ES, Elite, RX-V's, those are pretty damn good! I have nothing against Sony's ES equipment at all, I have always been impressed with it.

And I didn't say "ALL Sony", I said "this" Sony. You know as well as I do that there isn't any base line Sony anything that will ever see 100 watts.

Manufacturer data is meaningless.

MacLeod

Originally posted by sowen010599
Remember, loud means NOTHING.

Yes, I know. But I also know that the bass this thing is capable of putting out is way beyond the ability of 20-40 watts. I know the volume this thing can get up to CLEANLY can not be done with 20-40 watts.

Maybe its not the full 100 or maybe it is with tons of distortion. Whatever. It sounds good to me.

Either way Ill be getting a better one once finances dictates. And its going to be a Sony just to piss everybody off!! LOL

sowen010599

Originally posted by MacLeod
Whatever. It sounds good to me.

That is the only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing that matters.

MacLeod

Thats true but I must admit, if everybody is raving over Brand X and its getting all the hot reviews and everybody is oo'ing and ah'ing over it, it does make me want it more.

To a point anyway. Once something becomes very mainstream and start showing up all over the place Im done with it. Take JL Audio for instance. Ive always loved their gear but once it became "the official sponsor of the Ride with Funk Master Flex Show" I was done with them! :rolleyes: