Sony STR-DE697

rodman

Hi there
Have been looking at some of the threads and Sony receivers seem to be very poorly rated.

Just bought the Polk RM6900 package and just received a Sony STR-DE697 receiver as a gift.

Wondering if this Sony receiver will be able to adequately power my RM6900's or is this a total mis-match? I'm looking for good sound for both music and movies, but am not looking for any spectacular results. I just want to take advantage of my RM6900's ?

Would welcome comments from more experienced Polk HT users ?

dorokusai

The Sony won't have issues driving those speakers. That's a neat system, have fun!

Toxis

Will it run them? Definitely! Will it sound good? Sound is subjective to the listener but it definitely would not be anywhere near what those speakers are capable of.

dorokusai

Toxis - Remember we are talking RM series not LSi's. That AVR is fine for them.

fireshoes

"Meh...."

People blow the speakers in sub/sat packages fairly frequently...I say more power. And Sony baseline receivers have about the worst imaging and tone of any receiver out there. Will it work? Most likely fine. But if you have spare cash around, I'd use it.

doubled

Even though I have no complaints I've wondered the same thing with my Sony-945. But I find myself thinking how big a difference it would make if I went to a HK 630. I agree with the previous post, it will power those Polks without worry. I started with the RM6200's but ended up blowing a speaker, so eventually upgraded to were I'm at now... and the Sony has performed through it all.
Rock on!!

fireshoes

doubled, for your system, the upgrade would be a completely night and day difference!

Toxis

Originally posted by dorokusai
Toxis - Remember we are talking RM series not LSi's. That AVR is fine for them.

I completely know what you mean but the problem is, people (on average) like to put some volume to their system's once in a while and as we all know, what blows speakers (and what does Sony receivers have a LOTTTT of?)??? I'd put my money into an entry level Onkyo/Denon. Onkyo TX-SR502 or Denon AVR-485 would be awesome. For a few extra bucks, the new HK AVR135 is well worth it as well.

dorokusai

I agree to a point. You won't find me buying standard Sony line ever, but it doesn't mean it's the worst out there. I'm a solid state, Sony ES fan, and I assure you its super solid and can hang with the Denon, HK, blah blah crowd easily. I've owned a few pieces personally.

Just because a distortion figure is higher on one unit and not another, doesn't mean it's worse than the other....subjectively. When you start hearing distortion, actually hearing it, it's already way over those posted ratings....on any unit.

The whole ratings and specification issue is all just a numbers game, that has no FCC regulation and barely a FCC guideline...it's ludricrous....but most of the mainstream candidates all play the game.

HK is a mainstream brand known for solid, honest power ratings....Sony, Yamaha, Kenwood, for example are not, but they are larger in sales volume and always will be. 8 out of 10 sheep will pick one of the aforementioned over the HK, simply because of a perceived power advantage, I guarantee it. Do you really think they look at distortion levels?

The best ratings for gear, IMO are done within a Fidelity Firewall format....which shows true power output to the point of audible distortion. That's when you get some real numbers to eat.

And that silly little Sound & Vision chart is way off my radar as useful information.

Just conversation, not an argument.

fireshoes

Originally posted by dorokusai
I agree to a point. You won't find me buying standard Sony line ever, but it doesn't mean it's the worst out there

I'm curious what you think would be worse at the $299 price point?

dorokusai

What exactly do you mean? There's all kinds of garbage for <200. I'm not quite sure what your asking me.

fireshoes

Well, when you said Sony baseline is not the worst out there, I started trying to think what $299 receivers are worse than the Sony. I just wanted to see if you had any suggestions. I was thinking perhaps JVC.

opus

Originally posted by dorokusai
best ratings for gear, IMO are done within a Fidelity Firewall format.....

Where is this? I googled but got nothing. Help please.

rodman

Hello again and many thanks to all of you for your comments !


I plan on returning my Sony receiver and upgrading to a better AVR.

Which of the following would be the best match for my Polk RM6900 speaker package ?

Onkyo TX-SR 602 or
HK AVR235 ?
others ? (wanted to keep 7.1 for future use)

Thanks again for your opinions.
Rodman

dorokusai

Originally posted by opus
Where is this? I googled but got nothing. Help please.

It's a phrase coined for a protocol used by Home Cinema Choice, and WV Tech Labs of the UK.

Technical Editor Bob Tomalski introduces the Fidelity Firewall...
One of the most important specifications of any amplifier is its power output. Many buyers will often base a purchase decision on an amplifier's perceived might. But paper specifications can mislead. After all, what’s in a watt? From looking at the specification you’d think that the power output of home cinema amplifiers is like counting bags of spuds. The more you get, the heavier the sound. Surely everyone knows that?

Without getting too technical, Watts are the product of multiplying voltage by current. In terms of audio we're talking about the final stages of an amplifier. The electronics are fed with a voltage. On most amplifiers the circuits draw more current as the volume increases. The power developed is measured in Watts.

So far, so good. Problem is, at what volume setting of the dial should manufacturers measure the Wattage of an amplifier? They could wind up the volume and measure the power at full-tilt. Or they could crank the power and make the measurement when it 'sounds right'. Or at half volume then double the amount? Which is best?

Every manufacturer uses different ways to measure the power of its product and this can cause confusion when comparing like with like.

HCC has decided to cut through all the manufacturer’s blurb in an attempt to establish a clearer relationship between competing products.

In theory, amplifiers should not alter the sound. They should merely amplify the low-level audio signals from your VCR, LD or CD player to an amplitude that drives your loudspeakers.

In practice, life is not so simple. Amplifiers often have a 'character' – a unique signature that influences the depth and clarity of delivery.

Sometimes this can be measured as harmonic distortion. Put simply, when a pure tone is fed into the amplifier it may no longer emerge as being pure.

When we measure the maximum amplifier output we state this THD (total harmonic distortion). A high THD can reveal an amplifier that sounds unduly harsh or 'brittle', especially on fast transients that demand extra current from the power supply.

Manufacturers have many different ideas as to how much distortion is permissible. We’ve chosen our own measure of accuracy. We call our quality threshold the Fidelity Firewall. This power output measurement is made at 0.01 per cent distortion. At this level, harmonics have burned away, leaving a clean, pure, prime signal. Don't be surprised to see the Fidelity Firewall purging amplifiers of hype to reveal an output rating that is way below that of the manufacturer's specs. Our power and THD measurements are taken at one frequency only – 1kHz – which gives a guide as to the amplifier’s 'muscle' (its driving power into a speaker).

But what of other frequencies? By performing a sweep, we can measure the response of the amplifier at a number of frequencies – and it doesn’t stop there. On processors, preamps and other low-level audio devices we will check the operation of filters such as the 80Hz crossover filter on THX processors or the 'cinema' filter used on many home cinema amps to reduce the treble content.

On power amplifiers we will check the response at a number of power levels to ensure that the amplifier is linear – ie that as demands are placed upon the power supply, any changes to the timbre of the sound occur to all frequencies, not just a small range.

Of course, technical testing is not the only measurement of the ‘goodness’ of an amplifier. Yet it does give a qualified indication of how seriously a manufacturer rates sonic engineering. Used alongside subjective listening, these measurements are a valuable tool.

I think it's a better indicator of real power than the S&V testing.

Rodman - Good luck in what you buy.

shiu

Sony ES receivers are not cheap, but the Sony DB line offers decent quality receivers at much lower prices. At under $400, the Pioneer 1014, Yamaha 5760, 5790 are among the best deals.

dorokusai

You could pick up Sony ES AVR's under $500 easily when the previous line was current.

The average price on a STR-DA2ES was <$500....STR-DA1ES <$350....you just have to put forth some effort to find a e-tailer.

The new Sony ES Digital series hasn't dropped very much, but I'm not a fan of them anyhow.

shiu

The DB790, 795, 930 all have excellent reviews by some British magazines including What Hi*fi. The DA1/2ES don't have a lot of mult-channel power. DA1ES has 5.1 only.

rodman started with a Sony DE. If he wants a better Sony, the DB (more multi-channel power according lab tests) and ES are there. If the general lack of support of Sony in this and other forums bothers him, then he would be better off with Yamaha and Pioneer. They seem to offer better values than Denon and HK at the entry level.

dmalino

Originally posted by shiu
Sony ES receivers are not cheap, but the Sony DB line offers decent quality receivers at much lowe prices. At under $400, the Pioneer 1014, Yamaha 5760, 5790 are among the best deals.

Are the DB series available in the US?

dorokusai

If I recall correctly the DB is the European equivalent of the ES series.....and the DE is the American equivalent of the QS series elsewhere.

DB=ES
DE=QS

Sony is also very confusing in their product line features, as even that generic statement doesn't work for every model.

Only the DE and ES are available directly in America to the best of my knowledge.

gjrome70148

Originally posted by rodman
Hi there
Have been looking at some of the threads and Sony receivers seem to be very poorly rated.

Just bought the Polk RM6900 package and just received a Sony STR-DE697 receiver as a gift.

Wondering if this Sony receiver will be able to adequately power my RM6900's or is this a total mis-match? I'm looking for good sound for both music and movies, but am not looking for any spectacular results. I just want to take advantage of my RM6900's ?

Would welcome comments from more experienced Polk HT users ?

Hey Rodman, I would like to start off by saying... Great decision on buying the Polk rm-6900's ! That is a great system. It is unfortunate that using that sony model you will never find out what a great speaker system you have. I once had a sony receiver 100w/channel. I returned it so many times I received a store credit and purchased the Harmon Kardon (hk-avr-225) 50w per channel... Please do no let the wattage get you disapointed. HK rattings are different from sony.. comparison is 50watts harmon kardon to about 125 watts sony. I would return that system and go harmon Kardon. The Harmon Kardon is a way better system and more on the higher end than sony. I like the sony tv's, but as far as receivers go... it just not their thing.
Also, If you would like to improve your system after that, think about adding an additional sub. try either definitive tech 300w or better yet try the klipsh 500w sub... that will rock your house!
Good luck!
Greg

rodman

Hey Rodman, I would like to start off by saying... Great decision on buying the Polk rm-6900's ! That is a great system. It is unfortunate that using that sony model you will never find out what a great speaker system you have. I once had a sony receiver 100w/channel. I returned it so many times I received a store credit and purchased the Harmon Kardon (hk-avr-225) 50w per channel... Please do no let the wattage get you disapointed. HK rattings are different from sony.. comparison is 50watts harmon kardon to about 125 watts sony. I would return that system and go harmon Kardon. The Harmon Kardon is a way better system and more on the higher end than sony. I like the sony tv's, but as far as receivers go... it just not their thing.
Also, If you would like to improve your system after that, think about adding an additional sub. try either definitive tech 300w or better yet try the klipsh 500w sub... that will rock your house!
Good luck!
Greg


Thanks Greg.
I ended up taking back my Sony receiver and getting an Onkyo Tx-SR 602 instead. I got a really good price on it which made it the deciding factor over the HK AVR235. Should be a better match for my Polk 6900's

Rodman

shiu

Originally posted by 2+2
I am beginning to agree with HKs view that current capacity is just as important as watts.

Current capacity is important, but HK design or not, basic electrical theory dictates that amplifiers rated with the same "watts" into an 8 ohm load will have the same current capacity. That said, HK amps are probably capable of delivering relatively higher instantaneous current, even when the load drops below 8 ohms.

When HK claims +-35 amps for their AVR235, they do not specify for how long. It could be just a few nano seconds. Denon and Yamaha also claim high current capable, but they do not specify any instantaneous values, making it impossible to compare them to the HK models. That does not necessarily mean they are less high current capable.

I had auditioned the RTi10 several times, powered by the HKAVR430 and the 630. The 430 did not do well but the 630 did. I have the feeling that the AVR235 will be fine for the RTi8 but not the RTi10 or higher.