Ordered a Musical Fidelity X-10V3 Tube Buffer Stage Today

pjdami

Well, I haven't gotten anything new in a couple of months (last thing was a Melos preamp for the SDA CRS+), so today I took the plunge and in my search to add tubes to another rig that I have I ordered one:

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/SmallX/SX10V3

Mu-Vista tubes with an estimated life of 100,000 hrs (save the calculator.. that's eleven years always on folks.) Should be interesting. Will give it a run with my Rotel CDP vs. the modified Jolida JD100 CDP that I've had for about 10 months now.

If this thing works then I can't think of an easier way to get into tubes.

Tubes... just gotta have them.

F1nut

Cool, let me know what you think of it.

dcarlson

I'm very interested in how it works out for you.

Early B.

Sorry, gotta ask -- what's a tube buffer stage???

mhardy6647

Sorry, gotta ask -- what's a tube buffer stage???

It's (usually) a unity-gain circuit to 'buffer' input and output impedances... in this case, it's an excuse to introduce tubes into an ss circuit. I love tube audio equipment (that's an understatement), but IMO a tube buffer stage is a way to inject some of that ol' tube warmth (read: distortion and compression characteristics) into sterile ss/digital sound.

IMO and FWW a good tube preamp would be a better investment :-)

If you want to try a tube buffer cheap, you can always take a look at this.
http://www.paia.com/tubestuf.htm#tubehead

dcarlson

I think he's giving it a try is in the interest of experimentation. I'm very curious and anxious to read about his results.

pjdami

I think he's giving it a try is in the interest of experimentation.

Rgr that. It is an experiment. I love the tube sound and am trying to incorporate it into different systems that I have. Some speakers love tube amps and others do better with SS amps. I have a couple of tube preamps now, SS and tube amps, SS and tube cdp, and different types of speakers. Its just trying to find all the synergy between the gear that I have and spreading out tubes to the equipment that fares better with the SS amps without hopefully having to go and get another Jolida cdp.

Besides, the reviews on this thing have really raised my curiousity. One of my SS preamps is a MF CD Pre 24 which should be an interesting combo with this tube buffer stage.

mhardy6647

Y'all probably knew this already, but the 6112 twin triode is a subminiature tube (pencil tube). Interesting choice...

http://hereford.ampr.org/cgi-bin/tube?tube=6112

HBombToo

hmmm...

http://www.milbert.com/tstxt.htm

organ

Welcome back, Paul! Long time no see. The new toy looks very cool. Can't wait to hear what you think of it.

Hbomb and Mhardy,
Thanks for posting the links. I really enjoyed reading those articles.

Maurice

dorokusai

Looks real neat....tubes kick arse.

jmasterj

Hey I got my X-10v3 on November 1st. Hooked it up between my receiver and my Carver amp. It adds a warm more detailed sound to strings, horns, and keybords. The soundstage seems wider, and I've noticed that I hear both speakers better when I'm off center then I did before I added it to the system.

I had to adjust the subs, crossover point, and I figure it will probably take a month or so to tweak. First impressions are good. I didn't expect it to be so small though. It's the first Tube gear I've ever tried in my system, and the first Musical Fidelity equipment as well.

It's nice to hear the music like it use to sound back when I had records. I've missed that.

Let us know what you think after you listen to yours I'll be in touch. J

organ

Forgot to ask. How much did that pretty little thing run you if you don't mind me asking? Looks like an excellent way to introduce tube sound to ss systems. Or wth, if you already have an all tube system, more tubes in the audio chain shouldn't hurt.

Maurice

jmasterj

Hi Maurice,

It was $409.50 including shipping Chicago/ Atlanta

pjdami

jmasterj,

Well that's certainly good news to hear that it made a difference for you. I should receive mine tomorrow and look forward to putting it through the tests with different setups that I have.

newsman

I was pondering about X10v3 myself. Be sure to let us know about your results!

Tour2ma

Interesting piece as is jmj's option of placing it in the pre-amp/ amp path rather than on a source...

mhardy,
What are the units for the dimensions in that 6112 sketch? cm?

pjdami

Well, its been a while and time to report back on some findings. The verdict in a nutshell............

I just ordered another one!

Believe me I tend to be a skeptical person but this thing improved every system I put it in for a test. Bass goes a little deeper, midrange comes out a little more, more separation and air in the instruments and highs. Tonally, in my opinion, it doesn't provide the warmth of say my Rogue 88 tube amp but it does add some of the tube richness which is sometimes missing with just SS gear. More on that later.

System 1
=======
LSi 15s w/ SVS PB1+
B&K AVR317 w/ DH Labs DIY powercord
Myryad Z110 cdp w/ Asylum DIY powercord
Rotel RCD961 cdp w/ Asylum DIY powercord
Krell KAV400xi integrated amp
Jolida JD100 tube cdp with Level 1 mods
Transparent Musiclinks / Musicwave wiring

First up was the X10 on the Rotel cdp output to the B&K receiver. Head to Head comparison with the Myryad cdp in stock form except for the powercord. To be honest, in this configuration I couldn't tell a difference. Both sounded great and indifferentiable to my ears. In stock form though, I felt that the stock Myryad bested the stock Rotel (without the buffer stage by about 10% improvement). I then placed it on the outputs of the Myryad and left the Rotel stock. Switching inputs on the B&K on the fly with the same cd in both players. Ah now I can clearly hear a difference. Almost sounds like the volume is higher or there is more gain with the Myryad in the loop.

Next I tried the LSi 15s with the Myryad and X10 combo on the Krell integrated head to head against the Jolida JD100. The Jolida is more relaxed and laid back sounding a great match with the Krell in this setup. The Myryad / X10 combo on the Krell was more detailed but not analytical or fatiguing. Take your pick here they both sounded great. I preferred the Jolida with the Krell in this setup. Back to the B&K receiver, I liked the Myryad / X10 combo over the Jolida / B&K setup. Just a personal preference here they both sounded great.

Next system
=========
Musical Fidelity Cd Pre 24 w/ X10 buffer
Rogue 88 tube amp
Kimber Hero ICs
Kimber 8TC speaker wire
DH Labs DIY powercords
Asylum powercord on source
Spendor S8 and Polk Monitor 10a speakers

Here again, the X10 added another layer of richness to the sound. Almost like if one were to raise the volume or hit the "loudness" button with the X10 in there. I'm thinking to myself, this thing is adding some gain and "louder sounds better" tricking the brain? This theory will be put to the test shortly.

Next system
=========
Krell KAV400xi
Jolida JD100 cdp with Level 1 mods
Dynaudio Contour 1.3MKII
Transparent Musiclink + MM technology
Transparent Musicwave + MM technology
DH Labs DIY powercord
Asylum DIY powercord
Hsu STF2 sub

This time I put the X10 in the tape loop of the Krell integrated. I've always felt that the Dynaudios were a little lean sounding on this setup even with the Jolida. With the X10 in the tape loop, I can just hit the tape button on the remote and compare the sound with and without the X10 in the loop on the fly. Both sounded great but with the X10 in there, the bass was a little louder again, mids seemed to jump out more, and highs were more extended. I thought about the gain thing again and put it to the test. Bass test tone cd track number 5. This is the 80 hz track. Interesting, the X10 adds about 1 db of SPL to the Radio Shack decibel meter. I tried to compare the X10 in the loop to without but adding some volume to compensate. Listening to some Eva Cassidy, Chris Issac, and Smashing Pumpkins. Adding the volume manually does make it louder but it just doesn't have the same air to it. Really weird.

These are not night / day differences but subtle and noticeable. With the X10 in the chain, it improved the dynamics slightly to every system I tried. It adds some of the richness that tube equipment provides. If your system tends to sound a little on the "lean" side, then this gadget helps to give the system body and texture that is quite noticeable.

Like I said, I'm getting another one for the living room for the Myryad / LSi 15 / B&K combo.

Paul

HBombToo

Great read Bro.

HBomb

polkatese

Cool review, Paul!

btw, on the KAV, 20 on the readout gives you enough volume? I supposed it was on the Dyna?

pjdami

btw, on the KAV, 20 on the readout gives you enough volume? I supposed it was on the Dyna?

PT, 20 on the Krell is quite low actually. I had turned it down to take the picture. This is the office setup where I have my computer. I usually listen to 35 - 50 on the volume in here.

polkatese

that's what I thought, and your range is about right with LSi9 on mine. cheers..

jmasterj

Hi Paul.

I've been waiting to hear what you thought about the X-10v3.

I also would like to get another one just don't have the funds. I moved into my new home in August and the budget says no more toys for now. Predictions are they will be sold out by Janurary or Feb. I just love the improvement it made to the sound of my system. It was money well spent. enjoy ! J

organ

Excellent review, Paul! I really enjoyed reading it. I wonder if more companies other than MF make a tube buffer stage. I'd like to play with one of those in the future. You have some kick **** equipment. Are you planning to put up some pics on the showcase?

Maurice

keith allen

I just added a music hall mmf cd25 player,now Im condomplating my next move,could the x10 possibley be a benefit to my very modest system?

music hall mmf25 cd player

carver ct26v preamp (modified)

carver tfm power amp 225 wpc

for $399,its an affordable upgrade....also how would it hook up to my system?I dont know much at all about these buffers!
opininions please

hoosier21

Keith

It hooks up like a tape player, rca in and outs.

I am really interested in jmasterj's use of it between his receiver (used as a preamp) and his power amp. Is this a good idea? Looks to me from the manual it should only be placed between sources and a preamp?? has anyone asked about using it on a variable output? I would think you could overload the unit.

And lastly, I have to ask, is a 400.00 unit that adds the tube sound a better choice than say getting a 400.00 tubed preamp? Seems like a lot of dough for a single use.

keith allen

Hmmmm,ya got me thinkin Russ:rolleyes:

pjdami

I am really interested in jmasterj's use of it between his receiver (used as a preamp) and his power amp. Is this a good idea? Looks to me from the manual it should only be placed between sources and a preamp?? has anyone asked about using it on a variable output? I would think you could overload the unit.

Hi Russ. If you look on the review link at the Musical Fidelity website they say that it can be used between the pre and the amp. I did so as well using it between the MF CD Pre 24 that I own and a Rogue tube amp.

My opinion, this thing will not make your system sound as "tubey" as say a dedicated tube pre or a tube amp. I've done the comparisons for a few weeks now. However, if one owns some solid state gear and doesn't want to deal with getting rid of all that gear and going hardcore tubes, then this device will add a little of the tube "richness" magic to solid state gear that can sound a little dry in comparison. It is an easily noticeable audible difference although subtle and really a matter of personal preference.

I'm really happy with how it improves the sound of the Rotel and Myryad cdps that I have in direct comparison to the Jolida tube output cdp that I have. It also seems to be system dependant with the electronics / speakers you mate it with. Once again, just my personal preferences.

Dennis Gardner

Earlier versions of the Missing Link are going for $150-$200.X10 D Missing Link

These are the round can-like tube buffers.

mhardy6647

I see that Steve "Decware" Deckert has a tube buffer in his product line now: the "Z-Box". 399 smackers.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/zbox.htm

W WALDECKER

based on what i have read here i have ordered a musical fidelity x-10v3 tube buffer stage to try out in my system. i have a pair of odyssey mono extremes with a tempest pre amp and my source is a symphonic line vibrato cd player. the in box dac in the vibrato is very good but as with other cd players it may benefit from a tube output stage. at the level my system is at now if i could see a 10% gain in sound quality for a $399.00 investment it would be great. musical fidelity claims that the circuit design is the same one used in thier tri vista sacd player and that the 6112 twin triode tube used in ths buffer is better than the one in thier tri vista sacd player and if this is the case this little box should be the audio deal of the century! i will let everyone know how it works out after i have ample time to check it out. so i will keep my fingers crossed .