Amp for my speakers....

audiobliss

I read on this forum recently that pairing opposites works really well. For instance, 'warm' speakers with 'cold' electronics and vice-versa. This makes sense to me. (Anyone agree?)

Well, I was wondering what kind of electronics would be opposites for pairing with my Klipsch speakers. The RF-35s would be considered 'cold', right? So, I would want 'warm' electronics; right?

If all this is correct, what are some manufacturers I would want to look into if I wanted to get an external amp? I've heard that Adcom (or maybe it was NAD) is 'cold', while B&K pairs nicely with Klipsch.

I might be getting ahead of myself, though. With speakers as sensitive as the Klipsch, would I really want to get an external amp? If I do decide to get one, it would probably be at least a year before I actually got it, so I'm kinda doin' some early droolin'...errr...research.

Last thing, about how much would I sink for a *nice* stereo amp? For instance, how much would Sunfire's 300wpc stereo amp cost? I'm sure this is certainly overkill, but it looks pretty nice.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated; thanks in advance.

TroyD

While the quantity of power is an issue, the more important question is QUALITY.

All things being equal, separates are superior in terms of sound quality, regardless of speaker sensitivity.

That said, what matches with what is generally a matter of personal preferences, however, I believe that most gear is built to be compatible with a wide range of gear. If anything, rather than brands, I'd say horns lend themselves better to tubes vice SS.

A Sunfire stereo amp will run you in the neighborhood of 1K give or take on the used market.

BDT

VR3

Klipsch = Tube Amps

organ

If I were you, I'd get a tube int or a good ss int. Thing is, their sensitivity is so high that a good quality 50w/ch ss int will be more than enough. I've got 25w/ch tube power feeding mine and those babies can shake the whole house. Is this upgrade going to be a long term thing or do you still have a lot of gear on your list that you feel you need to try out? If you're planning to stick to whatever you're getting, get tubes and don't look back. Music will sound real when you use tubes on them.

I connected my NAD amp a few weeks ago for several days and it can't come close to my vintage tube amp. It did sound nice but it didn't have the warmth, bloom, realism and smoothness of tubes. And the NAD amp is very warm sounding with my LSi9. The tubes gave the RF-35 more body and weight. There was a night/day difference in the high freq as well. You might want to take a look at the Antique Sound Lab AQ1003DT www.divertech.com What kind of music do you listen to?

Maurice

audiobliss

Thanks for all the replies.

I'd say that any upgrade I'll be making in the future would be a rather permanent thing. I guess I really should get into tubes sometime, they just look out of my league! I'm not sure I can get anyone else (in my house) to go with tubes, but maybe one day. I also don't think there's anywhere around here that sells them, but there's a new store that just opened up I'm hoping to go to this afternoon.

I'd say I listen mostly to country, oldies, soft rock, some Christian (guess that sounds 'bout the same as soft rock), acappella, and then whatever you'd call James Taylor and Eric Clapton. I'm wanting to start listening more to instrumental kinda stuff with guitars, pianos, etc.

Thanks!!

F1nut

You don't have to buy new, shop Audiogon for a used tube amp.

audiobliss

Alas, that won't work. I'm surprised all of y'all don't know, but...

I don't buy used or on the forum or anything. I bet I woulda bought a few things I've seen, but I have things called parents (and, that's a good thing), and they won't lemme do that kinda stuff.

I am stuck with the new and expensive gear. All well, I guess there've been worse problems.

audiobliss

Output Power 30W x 2
Frequency responsible at 1 W 24Hz - 40KHz
THD at 1W 1%
THD at full power 3%
Frequency responsible at full power 25Hz - 34KHz
S/N Ratio / Noise level mV 80 dB /1.5mV
S/N Ratio with A weighting 65 dB (1mV)
Input impedance 100K
Output Impedance 4,8,16 Ohm
Input sensitive 165mV
Power request 230W
Fuse 3A Slow blow
Power cord - Detachable /Fixed Detachable
Input Sockets RCA Gold Plate
Output Terminal Heavy duty Gold Plate 5 ways speaker post
Chassis Finish Polished Steel
Front Panel Finish Silver anodized, brushed aluminum
Tube Complement EL34 x 4,12AU7 x 4
Dimension W x D x H in in 15 x 12 x 9
Shipping Dimension W x D x H in mm 470 x 350 x 315
Net Weight /Kg 45lb


These are the stats for the Antique Sound Labs AQ1003 DT INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER.

I have a few questions:

1) How come it only goes to 24Hz, and if I get a *nice* sub one day, will that be enough?

2)How come the distortion is so high?!?!?! I know it's hard to hear slight distortion, but isn't that a LOT?!?!?!

3)Isn't that a pretty low signal-to-noise ratio?

4)WHAT ARE THE SOURCES? I mean, the inputs; how many & for what?

Now, I'm not going to complain about the wattage as I somehow understand that with tubes, power is different, and that my speakers are very sensitive. However, what about the s-n ratio? And the distortion? Are these things common to tubes that are ok?

I'd appreciate all comments and clearifications.

Thanks!

organ

1- Tubes won't dig as deep as SS for bass. A limit of 24Hz is more than enough for your RF-35. Can't remember off the top of my head but I believe they drop fairly quick after 35Hz. If you want to use a sub, use the subwoofer output. The 1003DT have one. The sub out is connected to the pre section of the int and should provide full freq response.

2- Yeah, compared to SS, that's a lot of distortion. This is common with all tube equipments. I'm sure the distortion level on my tube amp is higher but it still sounds way better than my SS amp which is superior on paper. Tube owners ignore specs and judge by ear. I'm sure you'll forget about the specs once you hear it.

3- Pretty much the same as my answer for #2. IME, even though tubes have inferior s/n ratio compared to SS, it will sound cleaner, believe it or not!

4- "Sources" is like the input selector. You conect your cd player, tape deck, etc to it. Not sure how many are there. Take a look at the **** shot on the website, count how many pairs of RCA jacks are on the back, subtract one for subwoofer out and you should find out how many inputs are available.

You should also take a look at Jolida int amps. www.jolida.com I've heard great things about them too.

Maurice

Frank Z

Originally posted by audiobliss
Now, I'm not going to complain about the wattage as I somehow understand that with tubes, power is different, and that my speakers are very sensitive.

It took me awhile to get the power thing straight in my noggin as well. Power is power, regardless of the type of amplification. Assume an efficiency of 90 db at 1 watt. So inorder to hear a 3db increase you'll be doubling the output from the amp, so now you're at 93db@1meter and cranking out 2 watts. Another 3DB increase and you've doubled the output again. 96db@1meter knocking out 4 watts. So 105bd @ 1 meter your amp is pumping out 32watts. I don't know about you, but for me 105db is plenty loud enough.

As far as distortion goes, I doubt you'll ever hear it. Sure 1% sounds like a big number compared to the super low numbers you see for SS amps. Just remember that SS amps are much better at reducing spurious noise that the your ears would never hear to begin with.

Get the ASL if you can swing it. I'm very happy with the Antique Sound Labs AQ-1002DT Tube Amp I bought from Hoosier.

organ

Frank,
What output tubes are you using? Is the amp enough power for your SDA?

His speakers are 98db/w/m so the ASL should be more than enough.

Maurice

audiobliss

Now, another question:

Can I use any CD player with tube amps? I've been looking at Yamaha's DVD-S1500; will that work with them? And then, just a regular tuner and tape player? I really have no clue about this stuff....

Thanks for all the info!!

And, are there some other manufacturer I should look into? Or that I could just look at for comparison sake?

Thanks!!

Frank Z

Maurice,
Svetlanna KT-88. That's what I received when I bought the amp. Plenty of power for the SDA's. 50wpc.

Audiobliss,
Yes you cn use a CD player. Simply connect th L/R audio outputs to the preamp and your good to go. The L/R audio outputs will send an analog signal to the preamp. The cdp does the decoding.

F1nut

Originally posted by audiobliss
And, are there some other manufacturer I should look into? Or that I could just look at for comparison sake?

What's your price range?

audiobliss

Well, since I'm just doing research right now my range, we shall say, is what a mortal could afford. Whenever I actually decide to get into tubes, my range would be preferably under $1000, though I might could go to $1500. It all really depends on how much I get into audio, where I am (maybe college), etc, etc.

So, just throw anything remotely reasonable out there for me to look at.

Thanks.

organ

Try Cayin. www.cayin.de Website is not in English but you can ask the folks on the Klipsch forum for more info. There's quite a few members there who own Cayin. They have a tube integrated under $1K. Once you get a tube int, I doubt you'll want to upgrade because you can change the overall sound signature of your system by trying out a different brand of tubes. Tube changes can make it sound like you've just upgraded or changed your amp. Very fun. Take a look at units that use EL34 output tubes. This tube was designed for music and most people say it has the most 'romantic' sound. Seems to be the most popular power tube out there. There's quite a bit to choose from and prices for matched quads isn't too bad.

Maurice

audiobliss

Thanks, Maurice. That's a good idea to check out the opinions over at the Klipsch forum. I'll try that. However, I can't remember if I'm already a member or not!!:p

audiobliss

Here's a reply I got over on the Klipsch forum when I asked them about a possible tube amp for my RF-35s. I've never done any soldering or ANTYIHG like that, but if it's not too difficult and if the kit is actually pretty nice (well, for $150), then I might could be interested.

Any opinions on
1)tube amp kits, quality, etc.
2)the difficulty of doing these kits
3)other kits that might be better.

Thanks, I'd appreciate any info on this.

Hi,

Like you I became interested in tubes after hanging around this forum reading about horns and decided to try a small tube amp while waiting. I found a $151.95 (delivered) 2 X 8 watt kit and decided to assemble it.

When the kit arrived my secretary wanted to build it and did so in one morning. It did not work and a few minutes of investigation using common intelligence revealed a probable cause of a bad power solder joint. A quick repair and the sound began to emerge. Great sound from the speakers in my office with a direct couple with my $50 DVD/CD player.

A few weeks later I finally got my K-Horns and attached the tube amp. Great sound. Most likely not my final tube amp but I sure enjoy it - especially for the price.

Here is a web site for the amp kit: www.tubeaudio.com Look under the tube amplier kit section.

The power switch is mickey-mouse and I advise replacing it while building.

Enjoy,

Lee

organ

Looks like a fun project and a great price. I certainly wouldn't use it as a permanent amp in my rig but it's worth giving it a shot so you can enjoy some tube sound while you do research on a final amp. Also, you'll learn something about tube circuitry along the way. If money is not a problem and you feel like building, go for it.

There are some things to think about though. I doubt those tubes will push your RF-35 that hard. 8w/ch is pretty low even though your speakers are very sensitive. The RF series have some impedance dips. How loud do you normally listen to your system? The output transformers in a tube amp is very important and I doubt the ones on that kit are high quality. I haven't heard anything about the type of tube used in that kit. Check out www.thetubestore.com and www.triodeelectronics.com to see if they're available there so you can tube roll and buy replacements. Every type of tube have their own unique sound. If I were you, I'd try it out. Looks like a great way to get into tubes on the cheap. If you plan to build one, get a soldering iron at rat shack (30watts) and start practicing while you're waiting for the kit. Rat shack have some good silver solder. You can find pages around the net that will teach you how to solder.

Maurice

audiobliss

Thanks, Maurice! I'll look into it and then see what the parents think of it. We'll see!