Looking at SVS

gregure

Looking to buy a SVS woofer, but I'm not sure what to get. Let me start out by saying that I'm looking to get better than what I have now, which will probably be accomplished w/ any SVS sub, however I'm on the edge about how much I'd like to spend. The living room is not too big, probably average size, but I will be able to turn up the volume a decent amount.

Given my system listed at the bottom, what are some good recommendations? I'm thinking about going w/ the PC line, rather than a box sub. How does the PC + rate against the PC Ultra. Obviously the Ultra is better, but will I be more than satisfied w/ the +?

I'm also considering the PB10 ISD, having read so many good things about it, but I want to make sure it will get the job done. Especially w/ my B&K Reciever, I want the quality to be there in the bass, like it is w/ the speakers. The Sony sub I have gets the job done ok, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of definition and power in the bass. Any suggestions will be much appreciated. I'll also email SVS, but I don't have the room measurements yet, so I'll need to get around to doing that before asking SVS. Thanks.

VR3

Any SVS will do

You cant get the woofers unless you have the sub, sorry

However, the 12" Adire Shiva is very similar to the PCi woofer

McLoki

I just purchased the 25-31 cs+ from Mazeroth. He is going to mail it out on Monday eve and I hope to have it by the end of next week. (only going from Ohio to Illinois)

I will post a review when I get it comparing it to my current setup. (Polk 350 and a 10" MTX). My room is pretty large and I will be driving it with an amp of similar power to the PC line.

If you have any specific questions, let me know and I will try and incorporate them into my testing.

Michael

gregure

First of all, let me be clear: when I typed "SVS woofer," I meant the whole sub. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks McLoki for offering some suggestions for your review. All I'm really looking to find out is: are the plus woofers excellent enough for s/o like me who's never experienced that level of quality, or should I spring for the Ultra? In other words, are you in any way dissatisfied w/ the + woofer? Also, does a single cylinder sub produce enough bass to adaquately fill out the bass in a moderate/average sized living room? Probably on the smaller side than the larger of average. I'm definitely not going to buy two subs as so many people recommend. The room just couldn't take it. Thanks again.

McLoki

From my reading on the SVS website as well as every review I can find, it looks like the plus woofer is 80% of the ultra sub benefit for 30% of the ultra subs added price putting the plus series as the king of the "bang for the buck" from SVS.

It looks like the ultra is up 2db or so on the plus woofer above 25hz or so. Below that it really starts paying the big benefits.

As far as filling the room with bass - I hope to have the answer for that to you by the end of the week.

Michael

BTW - if what I have read so far is half true - ANY SVS sub will kill compared to your Sony. (all hear say at this point, but will let you know the rest soon.)

opus

gregure, I just bought a 25-31+ last week. I have 1 port blocked to tune it down to 20hz at the expense of a little headroom. And yeah it will fill the room. Can't believe I almost bought the big one......

gregure

Went into a really nice A/V store today. SVS came up, but the guys had never heard of them. They looked it up online, and shot back an affirmative that the drivers are really high quality. However, the rep mentioned that he felt a cylinder would not produce bass as clean and tight as a box would. Does anyone w/ a SVS PC line sub agree w/ that, or is the bass tight and clean w/ SVS cylinders? This guy basically said a cylinder would produce more bass output, but the bass wouldn't be as clean as a box sub? Thoughts?

fireshoes

Nope, cylinders do just fine for clean tight bass. To the sub, it's just an enclosure; it doesn't matter to it what shape the enclosure is, just the volume of it.

danger boy

i have a 20-39 PCi SVS. I love it. I can't imagine more SPL than this. It's much lighter in weight than a box sub. It hits low and hard. It fills my room without any problem.

My only small complaint is that bass output for music isn't as good as it is for movies. But that could also my my Marantz receiver and not a fault of the SVS at all. My receiver doesn't have a variable sub crossover adjustment.

I'd like to hear a + or ultra compared to mine some time.

gatemplin

SVS came up, but the guys had never heard of them.

That's not a good sign.

However, the rep mentioned that he felt a cylinder would not produce bass as clean and tight as a box would.

First thing to do is not listen to this guy. As fireshoes said, only the volume matters. If anything, the cylinder will produce less cabinet noise but the difference will probably not be audible anyway.

dkg999

If you want to see the old "shuck and duck" routine, mention SVS while you are shopping at a Tweeter store! It must be a corporate training criteria to teach their sales people to trash SVS and Outlaw. When I bought my Sony 34" widescreen they wanted to upsell me on my HT setup. They told me that anything they sold would be better than what SVS or Outlaw had. The salesperson wanted me to believe that the amplifiers in the Yamaha RX-v1400 were much higher quality than Outlaw amplifiers. Now I really like Yamaha audio equipment, but I know that ain't true!

Tour2ma

gregure,

Call or write Tom at SVS. He will steer you true on the proper SVS for your room. You will need dimensions (LxWxH), not just "average size" will do.

Tom will also need to know what the size is of any adjacent rooms from which your HT area cannot be closed off. Often this is overlooked and it does impact a given sub's ability to "pressurize" your listening space.

So get your info together, give a call, get a recommendation, have your credit card ready, and don't look back...

gregure

You know, I've actually never met a single a/v rep at a dealer that was familiar w/ SVS. For all their ads, and all their glory, they've apparently still not been able to make enough of a name for themselves for dealers to be familiar w/ them. I've also only encountered a few who are familiar w/ Outlaw Audio. I suppose it's just because everything they are focused on, and trained on, and perhaps what they read about, are products that they could actually sell. After all, you don't see SVS sending literature to dealers, they are a direct-to-consumer company. Just a thought.
I don't really hold it against a dealer for not having heard of SVS, as I would actually be surprised if they had.

Tour2ma

SVS and Outlaw are internet only companies... Dealers would be promoting their competition, if they honestly discussed them with you.

amulford

And for that you should be glad. If they sold through a dealer, there would be a fair amount of markup for them handling the product which would increase the price dramatically. By cutting out the middleman you get a good price on a quality piece of performance.

How much of do you think a dealer actually pays for, say, a Krell amp??? Granted, you are getting great equipment, but how much do you think is markup?

fireshoes

Most receivers and amps are marked up about 30-40%. TV's about 20-25%. DVD players about 7%.

McLoki

Originally posted by gregure
All I'm really looking to find out is: are the plus woofers excellent enough for s/o like me who's never experienced that level of quality, or should I spring for the Ultra?

If you think you will be second guessing yourself alot, I would just spring for the Ultra but with that said - the Plus is an awesome woofer and I don't think you would get alot of benefit from the Ultra unless you play at REALLY loud levels. (my + goes much louder than I would ever want and the room I am filling is HUGE)

In other words, are you in any way dissatisfied w/ the + woofer?

I am not at all dissatisfied with the woofer. I do think that the 20-39 would be better for HT, but the 25-31+ can be user tuned to 20hz. (and still has all the output that I would ever want) The other benefit of the 25-31 is that it can be hidden much easier. (it will be at least 5 min before you are asked why you have such a large air cleaner in your home theater room rather than the first question asked)

Also, does a single cylinder sub produce enough bass to adaquately fill out the bass in a moderate/average sized living room? Probably on the smaller side than the larger of average. I'm definitely not going to buy two subs as so many people recommend. The room just couldn't take it. Thanks again.

You will be amazed at the bass output of these things, I do not think you will need a second one. I know a number of people have recommended 2 to me as well and after having one (for my listening levels) a second would be overkill in the extreme.

If you purchase used, they seem to hold their value well and if you purchase new - they have a good return policy. It is a pretty low risk either way for a sub I am sure you will be happy with.

Michael

gregure

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I really appreciate it. To tell you the truth, I'm kind of reaching the end of my period of being able to justify putting money into my HT. Just found a Monster HTS 5100 floor model today for $550, and couldn't pass it up. BTW, I will be selling my HTS 3600 which is basically brand new, and has been sitting in a box for the past 4 months as I've been living w/ relatives, saving up to move into my own place. I'll put it on the flea market in a few weeks (end of the month) if no one replies to this. Thought I'd start it at $300, bought it for $500, I think that's fair. If anyone is interested, PM me. I'll have it to ship the first week of December. I'd rather go thru the forum than ebay if I can.

Anyway, back to my original point, I just can't justify spending $1k on a sub right now. Feel free to throw my "don't you hate it when" thread regarding subs back in my face. I just finished setting up the system I was helping a friend build. The SVS PB 10 ISD came today, and I was really surprised how great it sounded. Like I said originally, at this point I'm just looking for better than I have, and even the cheapest SVS accomplishes that. I found it a little boomy for music, but I can deal w/ that for now. Watched the bassy parts of The Two Towers, and found it to be more than ample. The fell beast's wing strokes literally shook the whole place when we played at my friend's house. Damn fine sub for the money, and a lot bigger than I thought, which makes sense, considering the output.

I think I'll be more than happy w/ the PB 10 for awhile. I just put in my order tonight. Hope you can forgive me for going a bit lower than I originally intended, but I really do need to prioritize right now. That 10" woofer is trully astounding for the price. Can't beat it. Some guys at Soundscape were trying to sell me a 10" Earthquake today, but after hearing the SVS, I'm sold on it. I've still yet to set it all up, I'll let you know how my RTi's sound on the B&K. I expect them to really shine.

Dr. Spec

I found it a little boomy for music, but I can deal w/ that for now.

Could be the disparity in filter slopes in the bass management circuit creating an emphasis in the 50-90 Hz region; this is very common when using an AVR for both music and HT applications.

Could also be room acoustics.

And what is an appropriate calibration level for HT is almost always too hot for music.

So you have three things that are likely responsible for the "boomy" quality on music. It is not the subwoofer; it has a ruler flat anechoic response.

When you get your PB10-ISD, just experiment with placement and calibration level for music, since you probably won't be using an external bass management crossover.

gregure

Thanks for your replay Dr. Spec. Always appreciate hearing from you. As for the boomy quality to music at my friend's house, I did the best I could. I tweaked w/ the phase, and found the best output to be straight up 90 degrees. We placed it in the corner, which really seemed to shine for movies. Of course, it's not the best setup either. Using the Harman Kardon 3480 for 2 channel, which has a line level out for sub, but no bass management at all. Speakers are set to full output, and sub output begins at 100Hz. That's all she wrote, no way to tweak, w/o another kind of sub. She's very happy, tho, and probably doesn't even mind the boominess. We might try different placements here and there, but there are only so many places in the room where that monster will fit. Thanks again.

Dr. Spec

Using the Harman Kardon 3480 for 2 channel, which has a line level out for sub, but no bass management at all. Speakers are set to full output, and sub output begins at 100Hz.

That pretty much explains it - double bass = boom.

There are high quality xo's all over the net for not much $$. Even P-digm makes some very decent units. I'd invest in one for her, maybe as a Christmas gift?

landry_p2000

Hey guys. What is the proper address for the svs website? I am having the same dilema on choosing the svs sub that is best for me. My room is 20x15 with 8 foot ceilings.

Dr. Spec

www.svsubwoofers.com

I recommend the 20-39PC+ as an upgrade over the PSW505 in that size room.

landry_p2000

Whoa! That 20-39 PC+ looks as if it would do twice the work as my PSW505 sub. That thing is loaded! The price is high, but I bet it is worth it. Man, do I feel "green" when it comes to upgrading. What is the usual wait time for shipping?

opus

63 hours to western Ill. from order to big box in house.

Dr. Spec

That 20-39 PC+ looks as if it would do twice the work as my PSW505 sub. That thing is loaded! The price is high, but I bet it is worth it.

Twice the work down to about 30 Hz. Below 30 Hz it will be a slaughter - the SVS is like Hercules in the 18-30 Hz bandwidth.

Where most subs wimper out a distortion-laden **** at 20 Hz, the SVS will melt paint with a clean blast of pure 20 Hz energy. You'll hear things you never knew existed in DVDs. It's worth the upgrade; ask anyone who's done it.

malikarshad

Upgrading to SVS sub is the best addition I have done to my HT. I had to go an arms length to buy it but its worth it.

gregure

"There are high quality xo's all over the net for not much $$. Even P-digm makes some very decent units. I'd invest in one for her, maybe as a Christmas gift?"

Doc,
Where might I find some of these crossovers on the net? Ebay? Etronics? You mentioned Paradigm, but I couldn't find it on their website. Can you recommend any others? And would it work w/ a two-channel receiver? Thanks.

tryrrthg

Originally posted by gregure
"There are high quality xo's all over the net for not much $$. Even P-digm makes some very decent units. I'd invest in one for her, maybe as a Christmas gift?"

Doc,
Where might I find some of these crossovers on the net? Ebay? Etronics? You mentioned Paradigm, but I couldn't find it on their website. Can you recommend any others? And would it work w/ a two-channel receiver? Thanks.

Paradigm offers the X-30 and X-20 x-overs. X-30 is low level and it has three high pass crossover options. the X-20 has speaker level connections but a fixed 120hz high pass xover. Try audiogon, there are usually some for sale there.

www.audiogon.com

Dr. Spec

http://www.marchandelec.com/

Good stuff here.

And the ICBM is always a safe bet, but it only has 2nd order slopes.

Thanks for the P-digm info tryrrthg.......

landry_p2000

Hey Gregure. You and I have close to the same set up. Let me know how it turns out with the new sub.
If Doc says it's all good, you can just about write it in stone!:cool: