Do I need an Amp with this Setup?

TerrellC

I am in the process of putting together my first HT system. I will use the system for 90% movies and 10% music. For now it will be 5.1. Here is what I have selected so far:

Front L&R: LSI9
Center: LSIC
Surrounds: LSI7
Sub: Hsu STF-2
Receiver: Denon 3805

I know the speakers are 4ohm and that they require a good receiver. In looking at the specs for the 3805 it says a few things. It talks about "rated power" and "dynamic power". I have no idea what it means:) Here are the specs:

Rated= 120W p/ channel at 8 ohms
160W p/channel at 6 ohms

Dynamic = 140W x2 channels at 8 ohms
210W x2 channels at 4 ohms
240W x2 channels at 2 ohms

The manual also says:

"Speakers with an impedance from 6 to 16 ohms can be connected for use as front and center speakers"

So I am confused. I hear from some that this receiver will be more than enough, but then I read comments like the one above.

How does a separate amp figure into all of this?
Do I need an amp, and if so do I need more than 1?

Any other input is appreciated!

Terrell

Early B.

Yes, get an amp for the fronts and center channel, at least. You can get a single 2-channel amp or a 3-channel amp or three monoblocks or a single channel amp and a monoblock. Your choice. Separate amps will generally improve the sound of your system vs. using a receiver.

Toxis

It will work and you'll be ok. But adding an amp will help TREMENDOUSLY!!

Tour2ma

Your spec's tell you that your Denon has nice reserve power when you are only running stereo mode. You can count on that reserve not being there for HT.

So ditto... you might benefit from an added amp for your front stage, but before you run out and buy one...

What are your listening habits? You stated you are 10% 2 ch music and 90% HT, but for each:
- what kind of levels are normal for you? Quiet as an apartment dweller with consideration for his neighbors, or country living "damn the torpedos" loud?
- Are you running all speakers set to small?

How big is the room your HT is in?
Has the Denon ever **** down/ gone into "Protection mode" due to overheating?

TerrellC

Thanks for the replies. So if I decide to amp it, how does it work.

1) Does the amp in the receiver do anything? If that is the case should I get a cheaper reciever with lest watts per channel?

2) As far as hooking it up, do I have the Receiver first then preouts to the amp then amp hooked to speakers?

3) What kind of Watts per channel should I look for in a 2 or 3 channel amp?

4) Brand recommendations?

thanks!

Terrell

amulford

It will work for now, but be aware that you SHOULD NOT try to drive the LSi's to loud levels for a long time. You notice they list power ratings down to 6 ohms? That's because Denon's are not very stable for 4 ohm loads, You WILL fry it. Personal experience...

I would enjoy it for now, but think about something rated for four ohm loads in the future, even if just for 2 CH pleasure.;)

Tour2ma

But you gotta understand... there's LOUD... and then there's Anthony Loud ...

1) Does the amp in the receiver do anything? If that is the case should I get a cheaper reciever with lest watts per channel?
With some AVR's once you utilize the Pre-out the signal no longer is avialable to the internal amp. This is not the case with Denon and many others. Many folks add an amp AND use the interal amp to bi-amp their front speakers.
Lower powered... hard to say. Go too low and your surrounds can be left in your front stage's dust...
Also part of "cheaper" can be inferior processing...

2) As far as hooking it up, do I have the Receiver first then preouts to the amp then amp hooked to speakers?
That's pretty much it... plus the bi-amp scheme(s).

3) What kind of Watts per channel should I look for in a 2 or 3 channel amp?
At least the equal of your AVR's... and up to double your AVR is a good range...

4) Brand recommendations?
New... Outlaw, HK, Denon...
Used... all of the above plus Carver, Adcom, NAD...

amulford

(holds hand to ear) HUH????

RuSsMaN

Every setup needs an amp.

TerrellC

Wow thanks for the wealth of information. I'll need to "chew" on it and see what kind of amps I aford, but I am convinced that I need an amp sooner rather than later.

So an amp really gives "better" sound not just louder and more stable?

A followup question on the bi amping: Do you not use the pre amp functions of the reciever in this case? Just go from output on receiver to the amp then to the speakers?

This really is a whole new world for me. I have a feeling like a lot more of my money will now be directed towards audio

Terrell

F1nut

Forget bi-amping for now, a waste anyway. Get yourself a nice high current amp with a good damping factor.

cfrizz

Your 2 most powerful speakers (LSI 9's & LSIC) can handle 200 watts. So you should get an amplifier/s that is at least 200 watts.

I have a 2 channel & a mono block for mine. I let my Denon handle the surrounds & sub.

It won't just be loud, it will also be a lot clearer and everything will be more pronounced.

You will love it! Have fun shopping & welcome to the club!

Cathy

audiobliss

From reading your posts, I gather that you have not yet bought the Denon 3805. If this is the case and you will indeed buy separate amps, I bet you'd be better of buying a pre-amp instead of the Denon. I don't know what kind of money you'd really be looking at, but I imagine that you could get a nice pre-amp and nice amps for the front 3 channels and then a not-as-nice amp for the back two channels for not too much more dough.

Again, I'm not real sure about that, but if you could swing it, you'd definitely have a lot more options and a lot nicer set-up. I thought I'd throw that idea out there and let all the guys who know something about audio chew on it.

If you've already got the Denon, just get some separate amps for the front 3 channels and don't look back.

Tour2ma

Nice catch ab...

I agree, if the money is not yet sunk into an AVR, the used market for a separate Pre-pro and multi-ch amp is very attractive. The used Pre-pro might end up being a step or so behind state of the art, but that's where the deals are...

TerrellC

You are correct. I have not spend the money on the Denon 3805 yet. I will definetly have a look at the separates option. I don't loose anything by going that why right?

Thanks!

Terrell

audiobliss

the only thing you could possibly lose is limitations and restrictions!

Well, and maybe some dough.....:D

audiobliss

I'll let all these other, much more knowledgeable guys help you out from here. I really don't know much in the way of pre's and separate amps; I'm just now looking into 'em myself.

Good luck.

Tour2ma

TC,
Again, if you shop used and are willing to be half a step behind, you are not looking at much more than a 3805 and three ch's of external amplification...

An Example (there are other brands to choose from):

Amp - Sunfire Cinema Grand (series I) can be had on Ebay for ~$1000 now; 5 x 200 wpc into 8-ohm; 5 x 400 wpc into 4-0hm...
All power concerns vanish...

Pre-Pro - B&K ref 20 ~$500 for a nice 5.1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5724589543&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

What you gain is flexibility... Upgrade the proecessor later, keep the amp..
Add a 2nd, identical amp for 7.1, and bi-amp your front three speakers...

audiobliss

Now that sounds like a great set-up. I've never thought about bi-ampin' like that. Cool.

TerrellC

Thanks everyone! I'll look into those great options.

Terrell

okiepolkie

I don't know much about the amp, but I know the Preamp is good.
It would definetly be better than a receiver.

No affil

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1103491224

C J T

i have started another thread about this (sorry) and asked about using the Denon 3805's 2nd and third zone amps to bi-amp the main front speakers. Audioholics has a review on this:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Denon-AVR3805_review04.php

I am new to this too. Might be something to consider. i might be wrong, but it sounds like you can double your power to the fronts this way and maintain your 5.1 HT set up...without buying an amp.

amulford

You notice they list power ratings down to 6 ohms? That's because Denon's are not very stable for 4 ohm loads, You WILL fry it. Personal experience...